Varied Voices  0:18  
Hello and welcome to OEG voices OEG voices OEG voices OEG voices... a new podcast bringing to you the voices and ideas of all by educators from around the world. OEG voices is produced by Open Education Global, a member based nonprofit organization supporting the development and use of open education globally learn more about us at oeglobal.org There's much to take in at a global level. We hope to bring you closer to how open education is working by hearing the stories of practitioners told in their own voices. Each episode introduces you to a global open educator and we invite you to later engage in conversation with them in our OEG Connect community.

Alan Levine  0:59  
I'm your host today, Alan Levine from OE Global. And I'm joined today by Kristina Ishmael, who is also new to OE Global. So how are you doing today, Kristina?

Kristina Ishmael  1:09  
I'm doing really well. How are you, Alan?

Alan Levine  1:12  
I'm pretty good. So you are kind of like our beta tester here. And we're excited that you're willing to do this. Can you tell us a little bit about yourself and you're working Open Education right now?

Kristina Ishmael  1:25  
Yeah, I am all of in week two working with OE Global as the new Director of Primary and Secondary Education. So for all of our K 12 folks around the world, and that have been working with open education and open educational resources. I will now get to help bring folks to our membership organization and kind of build the community more globally. My work over the past four years has been really U.S. specific, where I lead the Go Open project at the U.S. Department of Education Office of Ed Tech. And then I was a senior program manager at New America where I continue to support all of this type of work for the past three years out of Washington, DC. Along with his new position, I also moved across the country. And so now I'm on the west coast of the US in Portland, Oregon. And I'm getting to know the city here, as well as practicing safe and social distancing. While we are experiencing a pandemic, so, but also recognizing the need for OER and more Open Educational practices, when it comes to kind of what we are facing right now, across the world, around the world, for that matter, but across the U.S .and, and around the world in thinking about how we're going to be able to meet the needs of our youngest learners, our K-12 learners, or even our Pre K, which are our three and four year olds, and some of our most vulnerable populations and how we're going to meet their needs if we have to continue doing things via distance learning.

Alan Levine  3:04  
That's fantastic. And so can you remember what or who it was? That was like your, your entree to open education?

Kristina Ishmael  3:13  
Yeah. So I used to work at the state level. And I was at the Nebraska Department of Education, where I was the digital learning specialist for the entire state. So I led all of our edtech efforts, but I was also the school library liaison. So I advocated for school librarians, and had the chance to really dig into copyright, Creative Commons fair use all of that. And so it was really kind of brought to my attention through school librarians, and in particular, some folks that were at the university level in Nebraska, who helped me understand all of this. And then I started to lead a lot of professional development across the state on this and then join and kind of plugged into the community and learn from a lot of our higher ed folks who have helped show up, show me the way and then and then kind of translate that into K-12 practices. And so by 2015, when the U.S. Department of Education launched Go Open, the project that I ended up leading, I was talking with Andrew Marcinik, who was my predecessor at the department, as well as Joseph South who was the director whenever I was at the department, and then Richard Colada, who was the previous director, and they all know David Wiley. And so the community is small sometimes. And so all of them have played a huge role in the learning process, as well as kind of plugging into the community and then being able to grow it from there.

Unknown Speaker  4:47  
Excellent. And we'll have a chance to talk about your new work, but maybe you want to talk about some of your exciting work at New America.

Kristina Ishmael  4:55  
So after leading the work at the US Department of Education, we were able to grow the number of school districts that were using OER from 40 districts when I first joined, and then by the end of my year there, we had gone to over 110 districts. And then we also had states that signed on to help lead this work. And so we had 20 official states that were leading the work. And so after I left their new America said, we've got an OER portfolio and we're doing work here. So come work with us. And New America is a civic enterprise and a think tank. And I can honestly say I never thought that I would work in a think tank. Because I am a former classroom teacher and will always consider myself an educator. And but here I was working on education policy and leading some really great work on building awareness on er across the US and continuing to kind of make those connections where I spent a lot of my time doing email introductions. And leading phone calls with folks, you know that were interested in OER, and just developing awareness as well as trying to build that network of schools that could then lean on each other and collaborate, to share resources and take advantage of the fact that some larger districts might have a full team that could work on this while smaller districts may not and then they could share and work together on this. And so then we talked about reallocating funds that would normally be spent on textbooks and proprietary instructional materials to go back into the schools and compensating teachers for the time and the effort that it takes to curate and create resources and changing policy and that comes from the district level, changing copyright to cc licensing, as well as state level policy which requires you know, the introduction of OER into the definition of instructional materials. talking more about open educational practices and what that might mean so that we give students more choice in their learning. And the Hewlett Foundation has obviously led a lot of this work on their OER portfolio, but there are other portfolio within education kind of division is around deeper learning. And there are principles around deeper learning where we give students agency and allow them to really kind of unpack and get a little meta about their learning. And so we've also been trying to have those conversations and I think that those are very, like, uniquely tied to one another. The materials that we use in a classroom can help us get to a deeper learning so that we can create amazing citizens. And so what that might look like and I've just had the chance to kind of be the face I guess, the hair used to be the hair of a lot of this work, and I pinch myself sometimes it's some of the opportunities I've had to be in front of folks and like key decision makers around the US, but also globally, and I'm excited about this new position to continue that international work.

Alan Levine  8:10  
S o what are some of the things that it takes to be successful in moving systems and bringing us to K-12? Because , to me, I think about like, the range of things you have to deal with going across from pre-K to high school level is so much more territory to cover, then higher education.

Kristina Ishmael  8:32  
Yeah. So I think it's interesting when I think about like the overall system, I think about change management a lot. And we're also having this conversation when it comes to what the fall will look like for a lot of schools right now. Moving to more of a blended learning model, or full distance learning where they're using different online platforms to deliver content for teaching and learning. And the same goes for OER when it comes to choosing instructional materials, we are pretty ingrained in tradition. And the way that it has always kind of unfolded in a school district, large, medium sized or small, is that we call the publishing companies and they send us they're pretty new packages. And they're pretty new materials with all the bells and whistles. And sometimes there's a team of teachers or a team that will go through it and kind of evaluate the content and whether it is aligned to standards or certain learning objectives, and then make a decision based off of that, that's not always the case. But that is certainly what we see a lot of here in the US. And so I think getting to those folks that make those decisions to let them know that there are options when it comes to instructional materials and they don't have to go through that traditional process is really key. And so that's like one entry point for a lot of folks Now, because of new budget cuts that are going to happen, I think we're going to see an increase in people that are interested in OER because they don't have as much money and they still need new materials. And so these are all kind of ways that we've been able to work with the system and thinking about materials that we would use across a system, and then just changing hearts and minds about the use of materials themselves right now. We are experiencing unrest in the US when it comes to race. And, and, and rightfully so. It's time but this is not exclusive to the US by any means when we talk about colonization, and colonialism and whatever else may may be happening in other countries. And so we also need to evaluate the materials that we're using to make sure that they're inclusive and representative of our students. And that it's not a single narrative that we are presenting to students, which is traditionally the case as well.

Alan Levine  11:01  
Great. And so what do you see as some of the challenges opportunities and trying to look at this at a global level? And and where in the world? Do you see interesting things going on in K-12?

Kristina Ishmael  11:13  
That's a great question. I that is part of my work in joining OE Glopbal is to do a scan and trying to figure out some countries that are doing this work and doing it well, or that are just getting started in the work and how we can provide support for them. So to answer that question, I don't know yet. However, I am excited about the 193 countries that are part of UNESCO and with the UNESCO er recommendation, and being able to tap into ministries of education in those specific countries that may have a national curriculum, which is not something that we're familiar with here in the US, but that have a national curriculum set by the Ministry of Education, that if they chose to go with something that's openly licensed and that all of their schools read using it, that would be fantastic. And that we could write, you know, a case study on that, and then amplify that story to share with others. And I think that that is certainly a lesson that could be brought back to the US as well.

Alan Levine  12:13  
Right? And then certainly, I wanted to about this dynamic about we, you've already kind of cited the kind of needs now, for OER, whether it's budgets or access to materials. At the same time, you know, teachers and systems are facing this, like, we don't know what school is going to look like in a couple months. And so it's so much to balance and so I kind of wonder about like, how do we make this continue make this case for OER, when people are still trying to figure out just what the heck is going on and how am I going to deal with it?

Kristina Ishmael  12:50  
Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I guess I think a baby steps whenever getting started in this work in general for individual teachers or or even an entire district that would sign on to go open it was to replace one textbook in one grade level and one content area. So it was not throwing all the textbooks out completely. But it was starting in grade six science, for example, and then trying to build up from there. And so for individual teachers, I always encourage them to start with one unit. So I previously taught kindergarten and grade two, as well, what I was also an English language teacher, where I worked with grades one through six, so always an Early Childhood and Elementary. And when I taught grade two, I would think about the geometry unit where we focused on fractions. And so I spent a lot of time looking online for additional resources because I knew that the textbook was never sufficient. And so especially because the majority of my students were English learners, and it was hard for them and so how could we do more graphics and more visual representation of this concept. So I would go out and find these things. And so if I can help point educators to OER, and like current resources that exist, instead of having them go to Pinterest or Teachers Pay Teachers or other platforms that have resources that may not be as good, then that is one kind of way that we that we can certainly kind of grow this work and so it really starts with like, little steps to make big change.

Alan Levine  14:30  
I have to say in second grade, I loved fractions. 

I do not know where Mrs. foreman got her material. She didn't have the internet.

But you know, what makes me like feel positive about that is always that, you know, I just remember, especially my elementary school teachers as being so inventive and, and they they create an environment I love going to school. Yeah, and so I I really hope That that can be, you know, an experience that that more people have.

Kristina Ishmael  15:03  
I hope so. I love that you remember your second grade teacher by name, first of all? Um, but yeah, we and, and honestly, for folks that don't have access to a lot of materials, we're pretty resourceful. And that's not exclusive to the US by any means. But I feel like educators are pretty resourceful when it comes to inventing things or, you know, digging out certain like trash or recyclable things to be able to use that to help teach a concept. It all works.

Alan Levine  15:35  
I think you have to be resourceful to also move across the country in a pandemic. Is there is there sort of like an illustrative story from that experience that might be a metaphor for your new work? I put you on the spot...

Kristina Ishmael  15:54  
Right, right. Um, man. No, but I think it goes back to like taking it day by day and the small steps so I knew that there were certain kind of points that I wanted to be at by at the by the end of the day. And so I would just keep driving until I reach that and it was largely because I really wanted to see friends as I drove across the country. Even again, during a pandemic and being very safe and responsible whenever I would get to see folks but that is what kind of motivated me and so I think it was just taking it day by day and that's really what it especially now not knowing what the fall or the future will hold for us right now. In in K 12. That we're just gonna have to take it day by day and be really gracious with ourselves but with others as well.

Alan Levine  16:47  
Well, I love your enthusiasm, motivation, motivation, and it's gonna be great to have you as a part of OE Global and and also for being our our beta test for doing the OEG Voices podcast. And so thank you for listening to this episode of OEG Voices from Open Education Global . And so ideally, you'll hear here as we close out some open licensed music, and we're going to be asking for people actually, to suggest music. So, coming soon, there'll be a place where we get to thank someone for suggesting a particular track. And we will, of course, cite the source and license for this so and you'll eventually be able to find this episode on a new site. We're building at voices dot OE Global dot org And we also want to pair it with having follow up discussions because we want the podcast to kind of have a, an afterlife and for people to have questions of Kristina  and her work in K 12. And that will live at OEG Connect, connect at oe global dot org. And so if you'd like to share your work in open education, or even suggest a future guest, please let us know and we think that the more voices we have, the better Thank you, Kristina.

Kristina Ishmael  18:01  
Thank you

Transcribed by https://otter.ai