Alan Levine 0:07 Welcome to another episode of OEG Voices. I'm your host Alan Levine, and I am happy to have my colleague, Una Daly here, What's going on today, Una? Una Daly 1:06 Oh, beautiful weather here in in the San Francisco Bay Area. And I'm thrilled to be here with Amy Hofer. Alan Levine 1:13 We are ramping up to a new round of the Open Education Awards. The call for nominations just is opening now. We still are on a quest to bring you the voices and stories of people who won awards in the past. And so we're really pleased and excited to be talking to Amy Hofer, who was recognized in 2020 for an Open Education Support Specialist award. And it really recognizes Amy's work for being active in the use and promotion of OER and open practices. We had Amy's title listed as Coordinator of Statewide Open Education Library Services for the state of Oregon. But we just heard by email that she has a brand new role as statewide Open Education Program Director. So congratulations, Amy. Thank you. So where in the world are you coming to us today from? Amy Hofer 2:02 I'm at my house in northeast Portland, Oregon. I am excellent. Alan Levine 2:06 And we're also really excited to have Micheala Willa Hooper here, who's the OER Textbook Affordability Librarian at Linn-Benton Community College. And it was Michaela who nominated me for this award, right? Michaela Willi Hooper 2:19 Yes, absolutely. Amy helps me multiple times a day. So I just, you know, multiply that by however many colleges and universities there are in the state of Oregon, and she does a phenomenal amount to move open forward. Alan Levine 2:31 Yeah. And I see it with all the places I see Amy's name popping up online and all the support that she offers. So Amy, is it possible to give sort of like the one minute version that describes your work? How do you explain this to people outside the scope of education? Amy Hofer 2:48 Oh, yeah, I say that I'm helping lower the cost of textbooks in Oregon's higher ed. That's like what I tell my mom. Alan Levine 2:58 And she gets it? Amy Hofer 3:00 Yeah, because people do understand textbook affordability. And then for folks where it's like, you want to have a little more of a conversation, you can say that involves using low cost and no cost and openly licensed course materials, because then you're also talking about open education, which gets into teaching and learning and pedagogy and all those interesting kinds of things that go beyond the economic questions. Una Daly 3:26 And I think, well, maybe we covered this, but Michaela, you talked about nominating Amy for that Award of Excellence. And can you tell us a little bit more about that? Michaela Willi Hooper 3:41 I could go on and on. I don't know where I would stop. She does so much. And then she does it with such a positive, cheerful encouraging attitude. We can be difficult. And there are roadblocks. Amy has this really, you know, can do attitude. She's an encourager of others. Like I said, she is such a helper and really provides so many opportunities. You know, at my college, Linn-Benton Community College, we have an OER librarian, and we have some internal funding. In many community colleges and universities in Oregon, that's not the case. And, you know, throughout the State, faculty and students are getting engaged through these programs, Amy's offering from the equity and open education cohort where faculty learn about that important connection to adding book reviews to the open textbook library. I don't know how she goes about managing so many projects and grants, but somehow she does and she does it with this wonderful, very encouraging attitude of leadership so well. Una Daly 4:52 And I, of course, can sing a few praises too if I may. A couple of years ago, Amy got one of our community awards. Because not only is she a statewide leader, she's also a national and probably international leader as well. She responds on many of the email lists for support around open educational resources, policies, you name it. And then back in 2019, she volunteered to head up our sustainability group for our regional leaders of open education. In her work group Amy really hit that right out of the ballpark. They produced a wonderful sustainability guide for OER and so you don't have to sell me on Amy. Michaela Willi Hooper 5:43 Thanks to both of you, it's really nice to hear. I do have to add on to that and and just agree that Amy is just such a model collaborator, and I've learned so much from working on work groups with her I feel like she really helps everybody in the group contribute their strengths to create resources that are useful for everybody. Amy Hofer 6:02 Oh gosh guys, go on! Alan Levine 6:07 She's modest too! We definitely want to get to Amy, but I just because the nominations are open, Micheala, can you make a pitch for doing what you did by nominating another colleague, like what it does for our field? Michaela Willi Hooper 6:21 Sometimes this can sort of feel like lonely work, even though we spend our day working with different people on campus. A lot of times,the OER person, especially at the state level, works from home. And so you are always giving, and she's always setting agendas for groups and setting up, you know, awards for other people. And I think it's important for people to know that their work is recognized and appreciated when they're giving so much.. Una Daly 6:51 Vert true, Yeah, I was thinking, Amy, if you weren't an educator, you should be a therapist... group therapy. Alan Levine 7:01 In her spare time! Amy Hofer 7:03 Being a reference librarian has a little bit of that, you know, when a student calls you in a panic, and you just say, well, tell me everything, you know? Una Daly 7:14 Well, Amy, we want to give you a chance to speak a little bit, too. And so, um, maybe you can tell me a little bit about bringing people together in Oregon and moving that dial towards open, especially when you're working with a decentralized system? Amy Hofer 7:31 Yeah. So like you said, we don't have a system, we have 17 community colleges and seven universities that are just each their own separate institution with really unique environments at each one and it unique culture. But what we do have in Oregon is we have statewide affinity groups that are really used to working together and collaborating. So there's one for Dean's and library directors and distance learning, right? So each institution has an OER point person. And, you know, that's who I reach out to when I have questions about like, what's happening at your institution, it's the people that like, help me spread the word among faculty when there's opportunities to participate. And it also creates a community of practice of the champions at each institution that are really, you know, the leaders at their own institution. So that's been really important. And then also just sort of recognizing like, yeah, we need to work with every college and university where they are at, to move forward on their own terms, right. Like there aren't statewide goals, there isn't one, the statewide consistent method of even calculating savings, you know, students savings on affordable textbooks. So for me, it's like, Okay, tell me what you're doing. And I will aggregate that and report out with those explanations of like, all the different reasoning and methodology, etc, that went into, you know, that big statewide number that statewide report, so hopefully, it's like a little bit of a richer picture that we're presenting when it you know, has has that more each individual institution is contributing in their own way. Yeah. And that maybe it just adds something a little bit further along those lines. And I'm always been impressed with how strategic you are any and the research that you do on behalf of your statewide institutions. And how do you choose because I suspect that multiple people, multiple institutions are coming at you with different requests and want them very quickly. And so how do you decide which where to put your focus? That's a really good question because it doesn't really feel strategic in the moment. I kind of think of myself as a follow your nose person, but it's really I mean, I'm I'm very focused on OER. And I also need to be able to answer the questions, but like the questions that are most important to the folks that are providing the funding. And I will say the most important question for them is the students savings number. And like we know as educators, that is not the end of the story, but it's a really eye catching number. And it's what the legislature and the state agency want to be able to talk about. They want to talking point about that. So, you know, that's, that's a really obvious research question to be able to answer. But you know, for example, right now, we've got a group that Michaela's working on trying to figure out whether our statewide no cost and low cost designation requirement is having an impact on enrollment. And there's a couple of reasons to answer that question. One is because the we want to be able to tell the legislature whether that policy was working as we think it does, as a communication tool for students, but we also want to be able to answer faculty, especially a part time faculty who worry that their course might not make if they don't have it designated as no cost or low cost. So, you know, as things become, you know, sort of rise to the top in our Oregon context, that's when it's like, okay, yeah, we need to be able to try to answer this question. And then sometimes it's like, Okay, this is, this is something that I think a reasonable person would want to know the answer to as their next question. So sometimes it is sort of like, I need to satisfy myself with my own thinking. So for example, when I do an OER review workshop with faculty, I show the total cost of attendance breakdown data in the state, and like, half of the cost of attendance is housing, and then tuition and you work your way down the list, and books and supplies are six to 8% of the total cost. And I feel like it's really reasonable to say, Well, why are we focusing on a seemingly small slice of the pie? So then it's like, I need to be able to answer that question for myself. Why is this important? Right? Like, okay, it's an unexpected expense that can fluctuate, I'm actually, emergency aid tends to be more seemingly small dollar amounts of under $1,000. So that really can become an emergency for students. So like, if I have, and then I can write that up and posted on the blog. But if I have something where I am like, actually, I really need to know that for myself, so that I feel like I can confidently communicate with people like that's another. That's another reason for me to pursue something. Yeah, that's helpful to hear. That's great. Alan Levine 12:54 I'm a little curious Amy, like, here we are in 2021. Like, where things change in terms of awareness, or a number of people who are doing this work compared to where you started? Like, what's been that arc? Amy Hofer 13:06 has been so much So I started in 2015. And I will say, like, one thing that helped me so much is that there was already a lot of awareness in Oregon. There were like, you know, multiple community colleges that had established or programs when I started in 2015. So I was by no means starting from scratch and I had like a coalition of the willing that I could, you know, build from and talk to you, you know, and I are I also benefited so much from my neighbors like I cold called Una, I called called Quill in Washington. You know, Amanda and BC campus, I just started reaching out and like asking people, what do I do? And so all of that was already in place when I started, but I feel like an Oregon, we do have a really high level of awareness among faculty. So yeah, and when you think about it, too, like the open textbook library has grown so much since then, the courses listed on the open Oregon resources page, we just passed 1000. And that started in 2016. I think so. Yeah. Things have just really grown really quickly. Alan Levine 14:14 Yeah, I was gonna ask you about OER accomplishments, but you've kind of listed them and talked about students savings, like what's been like a like a most interesting or maybe unexpected accomplishment that you've seen through this work? unexpected accomplishment? Yeah, I through the ringer question in there. I know. Amy Hofer 14:34 You'll have to edit out my pause, I think. Um, yeah, I mean, the the sort of obvious ones are the like, growing awareness, the students savings numbers that are really exciting and high impact. But one thing I will say on Friday, we just had our virtual statewide OER symposium, and you know, even in that virtual environment the sort of feeling of our community of practice in Oregon was really apparent. And I do think that, to me, that's really like, the reason that this is so rewarding is that it really is like a warm and positive community of people that are interested in working on this and interested in sharing and, you know, want to meet their colleagues and support each other. So I will say that, like, all of those people, connections, to me feel really, really rewarding. Una Daly 15:37 Can you tell us about some challenges in Oregon, Amy, maybe upcoming ones, or maybe once you've been chewing on for a while? Amy Hofer 15:44 Yeah, well, we have a really good challenge right now. So we got some emergency relief funding from the governor, which is going to double our program budget for the next two years. And it is challenging to spend all the money, right, but it's a really good challenge to have. And I get to hire a statewide Open Education instructional designer. So I'm going to have a colleague at open Oregon, which is going to be great. And you know, we'll be able to support the new projects that we're spinning up. But yeah, it's gonna be, for me, like a totally new dimension to just be managing a bigger budget and more projects and going more in depth. And I think you were asking also about challenges for OER, globally. Am I remembering that Okay, yeah. And I mean, the thing is that I'm, in a way, I'm a little bit provincial, like, I'm very Oregon focused, and I don't often look up and sort of take in the global OER movement, although I am aware of how incredible it is, you know, partly because of a way Global's work. But I think the challenge that I see in Oregon, in general, I think, would apply globally. And that is just that, you know, it's late spring 2021. People are so burned out, people are so at capacity and, like, longing for summer. And I'm just hoping that people can get the rest that they need this summer and come back, because we're gonna have so many changes in the fall with potentially being in person again. But yeah, I'm just imagining that your all's heads are nodding, I imagined that other people's heads are nodding about that issue for now, right now. Yeah, I hear you. And I know, you know, it's great to get that money. But it's kind of like, but how we do one more thing. That's interesting, because like, I know that with the relief funding, and I'm like hearing about a lot of emergency funding coming through, and it's like, oh, there's actually like, a lot of money kind of sloshing around in higher ed. But it's set Against this backdrop of enrollments, plunging and program cuts and faculty losing their jobs because of that. So it's like, a very odd moment where there's two narratives on higher ed in the US that are going in parallel, and I'm not sure how to understand the both at the same time, very well said Michaela Willi Hooper 18:10 On that note, um, you know, I think this is a time of just it's very difficult, but also very hopeful. And, Amy, You are such an encourager of others. How do you stay motivated and positive in this important but challenging work? Amy Hofer 18:27 Yeah, I really appreciate that question. And also the category Michaela that you nominated me for, I just, I feel very seen, because I make such a conscious choice to encourage and praise other people's earlier work, no matter where they're at, no matter how big or how small, their role. And it's partly because like, when I started this job in 2015, I was coming from a work environment that was really driven by gossip and distrust. And it took me a really long time to decompress from that, like at least a year to decompress, and I am so much happier now that I am choosing to be positive with my colleagues. So it's amazing that like other people can see that to something that I do on purpose. But I also, to be totally honest, I have an ulterior motive, because, you know, having a state wide open ended initiative, that is not one person's job. It needs to be a lot of people's jobs. And, you know, I have a point five direct report, who's the program assistant, which is like, been amazing to have that support that nobody else reports to me, I need to persuade people I need to encourage people and have people feel that they're being recognized for the work that they're doing in order for them to keep participating and keep on wanting to do this. And then I just report on everybody else's success, right? So that is kind of what makes the whole thing work. Michaela Willi Hooper 20:06 I saw a phrase in a job description the other day, called "managing through influence." And I, you know, I feel like that's really, really hard. I sent that to a colleague, and I was like, you know, this might be an interesting job for you. But that's really hard. But I think you do it. So well, Amy. Amy Hofer 20:26 Well, thank you. Yeah, managing through influence really reminds me of just a lot of librarian positions that rely on influence and persuasion, where there's so many coordinators, you know, which was my role until we got this new funding and diamond director, but still, I think I'm still coordinating at the end of the day. So yeah, I think also, you know, having that library and background, I mean, I really think, as a program administrator, or you know, mid level bureaucrat, or whatever I am now, I still do use my library degree every day. And, and that background of those kinds of like functional coordinator, library and roles does inform how I think about this job, too. Alan Levine 21:10 I love the phrase Michaela, "managing by influence", I remember, so my first work at Maricopa was the same way-- we we had no authority to tell people what to do. want It's more work and you can hear Amy describe it like that it takes a pay off, seems much larger, but when you're in the middle of it, it's like oh my god, what how do I get people to do things? Una Daly 21:31 Exactly! Dit to. Alan Levine 21:34 Do you have any other inspiring ad vice or, or things for people, Like, who who may want to, you know , you know, rally and develop that kind of system that you've done in Oregon, or people who may have, you know, maybe states or systems that are that are even less supportive? Amy Hofer 21:51 Yeah, I mean, I will say, like, finding, finding your people. I think I pretty quickly realized that I needed a point person at each institution, and that has worked really well. Right, talking with Michaela, I realized, like, oh, it would be good to have this written down, like with bullets of what point people do. And so I do have that now. And, you know, I'm always happy to, like, share that or talk to people or, you know, like, finding your people is also like for statewide coordinators to have different venues to, for us to talk to each other. And there are more and more opportunities for that to happen, which I think has been great. I feel like I'm always paying forward the initial support that I got when I started in my role. And I was, like I said, cold calling people to be like, what is this job? How do I do this? Like, where do I look again, you know, in the people who were so generous with me that, you know, it is my turn to be like, yes, give me a call, let's talk. Let me share my documents with you. What can I do so and and i will say to that, that's one of the things that I really appreciate about, appreciate about the open and community in general is just that friendliness and generosity. You know, I really feel like that is sort of the norm that people are willing to share. Alan Levine 23:12 That's great. Thank you so much, Amy. It's been a thrill, like after seeing interactions with you online and to meet and hear you and Michaela like I just you know, your motivation for doing this says as much as maybe the award does for me so we have such a great feeling here of what this word can mean. And so with that I really appreciate you giving us your time here to share your experience. And hopefully it will inspire other people to get your nominations in because we have another round of awards coming up and you have all summer to work on your application and think of people to nominate. Amy Hofer 23:50 Thank you for havin g me and I it really is a real honor to receive this award and thanks so much Michaela. Michaela Willi Hooper 23:58 Yeah, I'm so happy to see you getting the recognition you deserve, And you are largely responsible for where Oregon is with OER so thank you. Una Daly 24:09 I completely agree. Alan Levine 24:13 And that's everybody so I'm just gonna thank everybody for listening to this episode of OEG Voices This is a podcast produced by Open Education Global. The open licensed music that you'll hear in this recording is called "Joyful Meeting" which I feel is this meeting, by Crowdwander and it's found in the Free Music Archive, licensed Creative Commons Attribution Noncommercia. You'll find this episode at our website voices.oeglobal.org. And we really want you to engage in follow up conversations ask Amy anything in OEG Connect, that is connect.oeglobal.org. And if you'd like to share your Open Education work or suggest future guests for this show, just let us know and we want to get as many voices on here as we can. So thank you again. Everybody this has been fabulous. Amy Hofer 25:01 Thanks Alan Transcribed by https://otter.ai