Marcela Morales  0:10  
We are recording a new episode of OEG voices recognizing Open Education Awards for Excellence from 2020. I'm your host, Marcela Morales and I am here with my colleague Alan Levine. How are you today, Alan?

Alan Levine  1:10  
I am most excellent because of look who is in the room like,  you know, Alegría comes in and just the energy level picks up automatically. I wish I was one of our students.

Marcela Morales  1:20  
I absolutely agree with you Alan, we love Alegría's energy!  Nominations are open now for the 2021 Open Education Awards for Excellence and we hope you are thinking about a person or project worthy of recognition. To provide the most worthy example we are speaking to last year's awardee Alegria Ribadeneira who was recognized in 2020 in the educator category. The Educator Award is given to a teacher who has over time created and/or applied a significant amount of OER in their teaching, and in doing so their professional practice has influenced their colleagues and peers to share more openly. This so aptly describes Alegria and we are challenged to even cover all she does in her role at Colorado State University, Pueblo. You will hear her enthusiasm for teaching and sharing in her own voice. Hola Alegria! Welcome. Where are you joining us today? 

Alegría Ribadeneira  2:07  
Hola Marcela y Alan! This is so great to be with you here today. I am actually not in my regular town, my university is Colorado State University in Pueblo, Colorado. But I'm about four hours away in Santa Fe, Nuevo Mexico visiting my sister for the first time in 15 months. So it's been so wonderful to be able to do this and thanks to technology, I can be with you here today no matter where I am. So I'm very, very happy to be here.

Alan Levine  2:40  
Fitting that you're visiting family, can you have like the elevator pitch type speech that you describe what you do to people outside of your work, like what do you tell your family that you do?

Alegría Ribadeneira  2:55  
Well, that's always a challenge, right, to try to tell people what it is that one does when they're not in our field. So, I'm a professor at Colorado State University, I'm on my 16th year of teaching, now.  I'm both Distinguished Professor and Director of World Languages and outside of that, I'm also lead instructor for the National Heritage Language Resource Center at UCLA and I teach under summer workshop, and I teach other teachers how to teach heritage languages. So that's sort of what I spend my days doing, which is so fun.

Marcela Morales  3:37  
We were very excited to learn about your award winning last year. But we want to know, what was your reaction upon receiving the award? And what has it meant for you?

Alegría Ribadeneira  3:46  
Well, I have to tell you, the first thing that happened was that I was in an absolute state of shock. I never in a million years imagine to win a global award. And I was very thankful to Jonathan Poritz who was the person who nominated me, because he recognized what I've been doing, which I didn't even know I was doing OER until he told me, by the way, and open educational practices. But so I was very thankful to him. But I also felt a tremendous amount of joy because I could bring some light into my little regional comprehensive university. You know, we are small, but we're mighty. And our size, I think is our strength. Because we can do a lot of collaboration and a lot of experiments and try cutting edge pedagogies and things like that, because we're small and we just seem to have a lot more flexibility than the larger institutions. And at the end of the day, I think for for this award what it did mostly was just validate what we're doing. You know, sometimes we work in silos and you just don't know who else is doing stuff? And what are they doing? and all of a sudden, when you're recognized, it validates not only your work, but the work of your colleagues. And in my case, because I do so many open educational practices, the work of my students, which to me is the most important of all. Yeah!

Alan Levine  5:21  
I'm gonna go off script here, because I was just, the idea that you didn't even know that you're doing open educational practices at the time. Can you talk about like, either who influenced you or like, what was your eye opening moment to understand the value of open educational practices?

Alegría Ribadeneira  5:42  
Well, um, so I teach languages. At Colorado State University in Pueblo, I teach Spanish. At my university, 50% of the people in town are Hispanic, and we're a Hispanic serving institution so we have, I think we're about 35% Hispanic, 85% of the people who do our major are heritage language learners, that means that they grew up at home speaking Spanish. And so, a lot of the needs that they have as learners are very different than second language learners. So second language learners is somebody who has no connection to the language comes into the classroom, and starts from scratch, right. But heritage language learners are a very, very different group. There is not a lot of material for them. Most of the traditional textbooks cater to second language learners. So they speak about Spanish in a way of like the foreign language in faraway exotic places, right, instead of this is the language that my grandma speaks. This is the language that my siblings and I talk. And, so their approach is different and they're very grammar based, so a lot of grammar or literature. So those are the two choices that you get as a second language learner. For heritage language learners, it is very different, because they already speak Spanish, they speak the language of the home. So they usually speak at an intermediate level, like we're doing right now. Most of us speak at intermediate all the time, unless you kind of up it up a little bit, and you want to sound more academic or more professional and then of course, you start using ample vocabulary, and connectors and all these things. But they're not used to that, why would they be? right? And it's because most of their schooling or all of their schooling has been done in English. So the need of the students is very different. They need content based learning, they need content, outside of literature, just anything, anything you can talk about, that you don't talk about in the home, they need to read it, play with it, do projects with it, etc, and then grow their vocabulary and their literacy skills. As I said, there's no books for these things. So I found myself creating a lot of the materials for my classes, as a lot of language teachers do by the way, it's very common for language teachers to create their own language materials. But for this specific population, not much out there. So that was one of the reasons. And then the other one is, one of the most important things to do with this population of students is project based learning. So project based learning, if you do a good project based learning, high quality project based learning -I'll send you the link to that if you want- calls for several things, one of them is an authentic product, and authentic processes. So when you're talking about an authentic product, you're trying to get your students to create things that are used in the real world. So for example, filling in the blanks on a sheet is not an authentic product, who does that, right? But you do create podcasts, just like we're doing right now. You create videos, you create webpages, you create brochures, you create 30 day health challenges, all these things, right? So this is the type of things that I have my students do during the class and so I was having them do all these things and then of course getting their permission to publish it on the web so then other people would have access. And another thing that I was really wanting them to do is for them to feel empowered by validating their voices.  Traditional textbooks of language, of Spanish language, and probably most languages, speak about the experiences of people in other countries that speak the language, monolinguals. And so for example, United States Spanish, is not validated in any of those. In fact, it's almost seen as a bastard language a lot of times, you know, and that it's wrong, that it's broken. Well, just like there's Cuban, Spanish, Mexican, Spanish, Ecuadorian Spanish, there is US Spanish, and it is a very valid, useful, beautiful variety of language that has never been validated. My students speak it, there's no reason for them to think that their language is less than anybody else's, right? So between that, and also their explorations of their own identities, of living between worlds, of being a group that is treated as a minority, even when they are a majority, like in my town.  All those things, all those voices, don't end up in traditional textbooks either. So they end up learning about other people when the real stories and the most interesting stories, in my way of thinking, are in their own backyards. So I wanted them to do that. I wanted them to also be able to express their voices tell their stories. So this is what I'm doing in class, right? And then I'm showing it to my friend Jonathan, and then he tells me, Alegria, that's open educational practices. And I said, What is that? So he sent me David Wiley's article on disposable assignment. And I was, I was just blown away. I was thinking, Oh god, yes! This is what I talk about in conferences. I tell people, why are you making your students write these papers that only you read and then you throw in the trash. They have so much to give and they can create educational resources to educate others about their experiences because they're not represented out there, right? And so, I had already been doing it, and I didn't know it, open educational practices. And then I was also doing OER, because of two reasons. First of all, the cost issue. Of course, this is the first thing people think about OER, right? They think, oh, the cost or as I said you know, 23% poverty in my town. There's food insecurity, there's housing insecurity amongst our students, how do you charge them $200 for a beginner Spanish textbook, $100 for the second and third year, you know, I just can't do that anymore. I can't justify it, right? And it doesn't even have the content that I want, or is not presented like I wanted, right? So I started writing those types of books that weren't out there. So instead of literature books, I do classes on health and well being in the Spanish speaking world Salud y bienestar en el mundo hispano". "Música y Sociedad", amusikk, societat.ctually my students wrote that textbook because I kept looking for one and there wasn't anything, you know, it was either super musicologist, tough stuff that, you know, like anthropological, who wants to read that? that's almost too much or little kid songs, you know? And I'm thinking No, like, what is the book we would want to read? So I just had them write it. And then, I just finished one on language and society, just exploring what it is to be bilingual. What it is to have a bilingual brain, how immigrant languages are lost, power in language, stigmatized varieties, who says what is the best Spanish, right? This exists in very tough linguistics books, my students aren't ready to read this really tough linguistics books. So I call this one linguistics ultralight. You know, just find some good articles, create some good activities, and have them run with it. And so give them an introduction, and maybe then they'll want to read the big fancy linguistics books, right? So I found myself writing these books as well, because they don't exist. And so, it's both for , but also the content that is not out there. So I don't know, you know, once you start, you almost can't stop, right? Because it just gets so exciting to be able to really tailor the content to your student population in a way that is going to be valuable to them. And it's also going to validate their experience and their voice. So you know, this is what happens when you get started.

Marcela Morales  14:05  
Yeah, you can never stop!  Alegría querida, we are so fascinated of learning about the work that you have been doing, since we got to know you, very excited about that! And all this landscape of the wonderful work that you develop, with everything in mind and you have always kept your students front and center, which I think it's amazing and wonderful. We have learned from a lot of your projects since we started knowing you, what is it now like a year and a half? And I'm curious, because you are so dynamic and changing constantly from one project to another. What is the one that you're currently excited about? Share with us? What is the project that you're working on right now?

Alegría Ribadeneira  14:48  
So there's there's two things. Let me tell you about some stuff that I that I've done that has brought me to where I am today, so you can see why I'm doing the crazy thing that I'm embarking on now. So as I was telling you, I've been writing the OERs myself or my students, but I've had my students do a lot of these things as well. So for example, this time, this semester, during the pandemic, I had them do voices of the pandemic, from their perspective and for that they actually created videos, as oral histories projects go, where they talk about their own experiences with the pandemic. I've had them do the stories of migration, where they interview people and then they tell the stories of migrations that we don't hear you know, because we always hear like the tragic ones or the, I mean, just like I wanted to hear their success stories, because they're in college, right? So stories of migration. I have them write children's books, based on the materials recovering when we do the food and society work, now with the language and society with the health and well being, because there are no children's books out there that express their points of view. So my students start writing books for children about the bilingual brain, my identity, migration stories with little fish. One is called "Is cool to be bilingual", because a lot of my students have thought that growing up bilingual is actually a disadvantage, you know, they get into the school system, the United States school system, and they tried to eradicate their Spanish, and they tried to turn them monolinguals. That's what they do in most schools, unless it's a dual school, a dual language school, but most of the time, sadly, no, they're trying to eradicate it. So they make them believe that it's actually a disadvantage. So I want children's books out there, right? They did their their food and identity, their food website -and I'll share all these links with you- but you know, there they explored food identity, especially from the bilingual bicultural point of view. They share family recipes and stories, and even create videos to teach you how to make their food. They did a public service announcement, you know, I was mentioning the music book, where they did things like festivals and celebrations with music from the point of view of a Hispanic growing up in the United States. So it's not somebody, an anthropologist looking in, and going like, Oh, this is, you know, this is what Hispanics do. This Hispanics are telling you what they do, you know, which gives it a whole new layer. They talk about protest music, Latinos in the United States, etc. The reason I'm mentioning all these projects they've done before is because I plan to use a lot of these things on my next step. So here is the new crazy thing we're doing. We received a grant from the Colorado Commission on Higher Education for open education in our university. Part of this grant, a big chunk of the grant we are using for a zero textbook cost initiative for the Spanish program. And that is going to make CSU Pueblo the first four year institution in the state of Colorado to offer an all OER degree. It is so exciting! and it also will be the first OER Spanish degree at a Hispanic serving institution. So, it's very exciting you know, and I keep telling them don't build us up too much because, you know, we just, we're just starting, and this is going to be a lot of work. This is going to be about a year and a half, that we're doing this. In this year and a half we have to write nine OER, including the beginning course, which you know, if you are familiar with any kind of language program, you know, those are the ones where the publishers get you.  Is that you know, the access code and then you have like all the very rich platforms, which is very exciting but it's also $200 to $300, you know, and so my beautiful friend Jonathan, again, I keep quoting him, I hope he listens to this podcast, so he knows I'm giving him credit. But I remember him telling me, Alegria, because I would tell him but the platform's are so rich, there's so great, and he kept going yeah but, could they be a little less cool, but free? and actually ended up being they don't even have to be less cool, you know.  We're discovering things like H5P, or trying to find, you know, a great platform for me Pressbooks or WordPress.

And there's just so much out there that we can do that we couldn't even do a couple years before. And in all this OER, I'm also planning to bring in a lot of these things I was telling you that we've been doing, right? So for example, in a unit we're going to talk about the pandemic, the new students can listen to my students who already did  their podcasts on the pandemic, right? So, so it's all gonna come together. We are a good team. I think so I enlisted all my Spanish faculty. And we're a good bunch, thank god and I have dubbed us a name, I think a name for a team is very important. So we are called "Los Valientes", the valient ones because it is pretty crazy, what we're doing is very brave, you know, and, and a little insane. But I, we've already had about four meetings, you know, I'm recording everything, I'm really meticulously keeping note of the process, because my hope is when other people want to do this, there is already some sort of blueprint, or at least some sort of guidance on how to do it and we're just sort of, you know, I'm inventing it as we go. But I think I have prepared myself to this, because I've had my students write already OER.  If I can get my students who, you know, are sometimes not as well prepared or motivated, to do what they have done already webpages that are out there, books that are out there, I know I can get my beautiful colleagues to do it, plus, they're getting paid what they should be paid, because of this grant and extra monies that we were able to get from the university. So I think that "Los Valientes" are going to come through, it's going to be you know, a lot of trial and error. But at the end and a year and a half, we should have a program that not only gives students pre textbooks, which is wonderful, of course, and it's called, you know, Ztc, and all that stuff. But what I think it's going to be in my view, even more valuable than that is we're going to have probably, I don't think this even exists a curriculum from beginning, from the very beginning, all the way to 400 levels, or from 100 to 400 level, with heritage language learners in mind. So I think that's going to make a huge difference, right, because some of them are already to jump into 300 level classes, but some start at 100 because they're more receptive bilinguals, you know, they, they, they, the parents never made them answer back in the language or maybe the "abuelita" wasn't living, you know, when the "abuelita" lives with you, the language stays in the house, when the "abuelita" doesn't live with you, you get less of a chance. When you're the last sibling, you're, you have less of a chance of keeping the language because when you're the first child the parents talk to you in Spanish, by the time you're the last one, your siblings already speak in English, you know, so there's like all this really cool aspects. So they come to the class, they have that family connection, that cultural strong connection to the language, but they're very much linguistically at least, as a second language learner, there's certainly not books for them, you know. So this is this is going to create a book for them as well, that talks about who they are to begin with, you know, so they can recognize themselves in the textbook, and in the explanations of the different types of learners, which most classes never even address. So it's very exciting, because it's not only a cost thing, but the whole curriculum is going to be so integrated from beginning to end for all of them. And also taking into account our second language learners, because they're in the classroom too, right?  I think for them, the advantage is going to be that they're going to learn about the Spanish speaking society that they're most likely to encounter, which is in the United States, and their struggles and their issues and their successes and all the things that come with it that are never in these textbooks. And they, you know, so that a second language learner that is studying Spanish to be a social worker, who do you think they're going to talk to? Somebody in Argentina or in the waterfalls in Costa Rica, you know, that's usually what those traditional textbooks talk about, they're not going to go talk to those people, they're going to talk to the Spanish speakers in their town. So the textbooks need to teach him about that group, you know, and our textbooks are going to do that. So, I mean, I could talk about this forever and I know there's a limited amount of time.

But, you know, I really hope that I was able to show why this is important, beyond cost, you know, what you can do with OER, and I'm sure that there's for every discipline, there are issues like this, that are not, that can be addressed by OER, that people like me who were really scared at first, and did not want to do it and Jonathan planted the little seed, you know, that was three, three or four years ago, to dare to do it, and maybe take you know, just one step and then another step, and before they know it, they might be as crazy as we are now and "Los Valientes" are going to do this crazy thing, but, but I think it's gonna be life changing and hopefully, it's also a program that other universities can adapt when we're done with it. So it's very, very exciting.

Alan Levine  25:03  
We can tell and I think you started to get to it, I was gonna ask you about is that I mean, you think big and you do big things, but like, if you were to help someone with that seed planting, and they're nervous about it, they're worried about it, what kind of advice to give to someone trying to pick out like that doable thing that they can succeed at first?

Alegría Ribadeneira  25:26  
Ah, that's a great, that's a great, question because I'm trying to go back to how I used to be when I started doing this, right? and thinking, what what were my, what were my issues, I think one of the scariest things was copyright. I was very scared of breaking copyright with somebody and ended up doing something that would get me in trouble, right? So I would say probably finding somebody in their university that is considered the OER Ambassador or you know, whatever, whatever we would call them, and then talking to them, so then they can give them a little guidance. And hopefully, there's some guidance in there where people can, can show them what other people are doing. Because when you see what other people are doing, I think that makes a big difference. Because you're like, well I could do that, you know, I've come across OER that, that is very useful, and not super high tech or anything, you know, and I mean, it's not like a Google Doc with a with a link, you know, a few hyperlinks, that's not, anybody can do that, right? And you're like, Wow, it doesn't even need to be that complicated, right? It could be but it doesn't need to be. And so just giving people permission to not be super sophisticated, I think would be really important. Having them find their OER ambassador, if they have one. So they're not afraid of the copyright thing. So they are more familiar with fair use, and more familiar with how you can find, where you can find things, you know, and maybe try adapting something first, you know, maybe what for one unit in your class, just find a little piece of OER somewhere and adapt it to your class, and then all of a sudden, you know, that'll be the seed, and then it can go. And for the students, really, my suggestion would be do good pedagogy. Because the lecture the lecture, class, besides I don't want to get in trouble. But um, you know, the talking head, I think it's is not the future of education anymore. I was telling you earlier that I was at this conference, the ASU remote conference, and oh, this brilliant person, Sasha, but I need to find out her last name. She said the most brilliant thing that, you know, we all think until, but don't have not put into words until somebody said it says it. So she was talking about how educators think that the value that they bring into a class is the content, because they're experts in the content. And that's the value they bring. But in all truth, the content is out there for free. Now, just a turn on a TED talk, turn on your it's everywhere, the content is everywhere. So I don't think that the value professors bring anymore to the class is just the content. But it's actually how do you have your students engage with that content? How do you have them play with that content that experience that content? That's what's going to give your class value. And the best example I can give you is so we all know what eating healthy means. And we all know what makes us gain weight, right? And get a little chubby. We know this. I mean, who does it right. And certainly the content is out there. There's a million articles online and, and great books about it. But that doesn't mean we're all walking around fit and healthy. We're not, right? So my sister who I adore, and I'm visiting right now, as you know, gained a few pounds during the pandemic, more than a few sadly. So when I saw her, I was shocked. And, you know, I was trying to be kind, but at the same time I was, you know, I was worried because we have family history of diabetes, all those good things. So I told her and she's got a PhD, she, I mean, how does she not know? She knows? Well, she just got into this app, this program and I'm not plugging any apps. I'm not gonna say the name. But she got into this program where they take the content of healthy eating, healthy eating habits, interaction, user experience, and law and behold, my sister has now lost seven pounds. She's doing all her little fun little games on her app, and reading all the many articles about health that, you know, I had been sending her articles for years, and she wasn't paying attention to them. Right? It is the way that this particular group of people are having her experience this content. This is something else that we can do in OER, right? I'll be the first one to tell you. I'm not an expert in music and society. I'm not an expert in food and society. But I can come up with some great fun projects for my students to do. So I find the content online just like anybody else. But I find a way for them to experience this content to engage with it to create with it, that inspires them, and makes them grow their language proficiency, grow their vocabulary, and also grow their knowledge in the content. So the thing is that, as I said, I think the way that teachers transmit their content that goes beyond just a talking head, and five articles to read is going to make a big difference, it's already making a big difference, just continue to make a big difference. And that is also where OER can come in. And definitely we're open educational practices come in. Because if you teach well, with project based learning, which I'm sorry, I just can't think of a better way to teach than that. Real life processes that what it teaches you about teamwork, about deadlines, about authenticity, about revising your product, because others are going to see it not because you're going to get a grade. So if there's good teaching, I think that it naturally follows that you can do OER with it. That's my you know, that's my take. And I'd be curious to you know, see what other people think. But in my experience, this is what has really worked. Yeah.

Alan Levine  31:47  
I've seen you make ceviche.

Unknown Speaker  31:52  
You can cook?

Alegría Ribadeneira  31:58  
Well, um, so my students did their whole family stories and recipes book. And they all cook and I tell you, from the point of view of as a professor, how much more fun is it to grade or not even grade because if there's a good rubric, students shouldn't even know what grades they're getting. But you know, how much more fun is it to read and experience your students work on something like when they're teaching you how to do their home meals and, and their home stories, versus a boring exam of true/false fill in the blank, over and over the same thing, or the same topic for the paper, you know, Oh, God, I can't wait to grade my student stuff. Or to assess it, you know, first of all, because they already know what they're getting in and they do everything, they all get A's. And I have no problem with that. By the way, everybody should get A's if they do the work.

Alan Levine  32:53  
So what happens when your students come in and they expect you to teach them? And you're like, no wait you're gonna, you're going to write a textbook, what's the reaction?

Alegría Ribadeneira  33:05  
Such a good question. I think they already know, you know, word has gone around campus that in my class, they're just, they're going to be doing all the work. And they think that they're doing all the work. But there's a lot of work that goes in the background. And this is, you know, a lot of people may think this is the easy way out of teaching. But that's maybe if you're doing it wrong, because to set up projects for your students with clear guidelines with, with scaffolding with models. With feedback is a ton of work. I mean, I don't know think of when you are producing this podcast, or when you are producing any materials are you putting out there for people to learn from? How much how much work is that, you know, when you're the editor, when you're putting things together? When you're building the webpage, it's a ton of work. But it's fun work. So it's okay. So I think the students already know that my classes are very interactive, and that they're going to be doing a lot of work. I averaged about four projects, a class and in my, in my food class, we did seven projects for that webpage. And in my music and society, the whole class was a project, because all they did was write that write the book. And then they were both the producers and the consumers of the content, because not only did they write it, but then they had to read each other's for all the discussions, right? So they were both the producers and the consumers. The skills that they gain, I think they only realize later on when they go into other classes and they realize how ill prepared their classmates are to do presentations to handle new technology. In my classes, we use a lot of technology. And I do it in baby steps. You know, we do maybe something that is very low stakes at the beginning, like I don't know, create a show and tell video on you know, on this platform or that platform and you know, and so then they just get comfortable with it a little bit. And I'm lucky enough that I direct the the language program and I direct the Spanish major. And so in there, even at the 100 level, they already do baby project. So they get really good at just using technology and not being afraid, you know, is that I mean, how much can you mess it up, you know, with the different with the different platforms. So, so they use things like Book Creator, wake lit. And then just Google, I mean, you can do so much with Google Docs and hyperlinks, and you know, so they're used to it. And I'll tell you something really exciting that happened the other day, um, one of my students was doing a certification for being a teacher. She took that teaching and technology class. So she wrote to me, and this is on that with the education department, she wrote to me, and she goes, Hi, Professora Alegria, I just wanted to tell you that I am so thankful for all the technology that you've taught us in your classes. Because every I was, I was helping the teacher teach the class, because I knew I knew all these other tools, right? And I just that I mean, that makes my year right to hear something like that, because I want my students to learn how to learn, and to not be afraid of learning. Because there's no way that I'm going to be able to teach them everything they need to know, content wise, for the whole rest of their future, right? It used to be that people thought that education was like you fill up the gas tank in college, and then you run the rest of your life with that gas tank. You know, that's no longer the case. We need to keep re-skilling, upskilling I certainly do. I'm sure you to do the same all the time, right? We're teaching ourselves how to do stuff all the time. So we can't be afraid of learning. And if I can teach anything to my students is to learn how to learn. That's, that's what I want him to do. Because I don't even know what jobs are going to be existing it 5-10 years from now. So they just got to be ready to not be afraid and try it and, and succeed and fail, you know, and asses, this is a good tool, this a bad tool? And so all those things you can do by engaging early on, and all these things I integrate into my OERs, you know, in the projects and things that that go in there. So I think it's a natural progression and hopefully, I believe it's going to be what is going to help them in their future in this very, very uncertain future we have now.

Marcela Morales  37:48  
Exactly, yeah. That's amazing Alegria. I do have one last question that I'm curious about, because you have such an amazing, beautiful energy and positive attitude towards everything that you do, but just as you said, it is a lot of work and even with the group of "Los Valientes"the volunteers and everything, getting the people in the right places and having the right group, but I wonder how do you stay motivated to keep them going? Because it's a challenging work. What is the motivation to keep on going with the builidng of OER, the open textbook and everything else that you're doing?

Alegría Ribadeneira  38:22  
Well, in one word, my students, my students and giving them a bright future. That's really what motivates me. It is hard work. But but no work that is important. Is is not hard work, right? And of course, when I say no work that important is hard work. I'm including very important work, like picking our food, you know, like, like, during the pandemic, that's all I can think about is like that is hard work. And this is important work, you know, so anything that is important work is always going to be hard. But it's worth it. You know, just like people who are picking my food and bring it to the grocery store and then delivering it to my house are incredible. I think so are professors who are putting the work into into preparing the students for whatever it is that is coming in the future. So for me, definitely my students and seeing the good that it does, and the pride that they feel when they put these things together. I know they show them to their parents, to their friends, to their "abuelitos", to their "abuelitas", to their "vecinas", your leaders to their our ou know, everybody? When did that used to happen when somebody wrote a boring paper or an exam? I mean, who do you show that to, you know, but here they're showing it to the world and they know that the world is listening to them. And they're feeling empowered by being able to contribute to other people's education through their own experiences and lending their voice. So it's incredibly addictive. And the other part that's addictive is imagining something and seeing it come to fruition. You know, sort of like saying, Okay, this is gonna happen, I don't know how I'm gonna get it done, but I'll try my best and then, and then you, you see it happen? Oh, it is just so rewarding and addicting. So um, you know, there's just a lot of good that comes from this at a personal level, just because it gives me so much joy. But for my students, and most importantly for my students, so they can go forward into whatever careers are going to end up in, and, and feel. feel ready. So that's what that's I think, what keeps me motivated Marcela.

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