Episode 68: Board Viewpoints with Maria Soledad Ramirez-Montoya and Perrine de Coëtlogon
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[00:00:00] Alan Levine: Hello, and we're pleased to be speaking to you from the studio of OE Global Voices, the podcast produced by Open Education Global. Each episode of our podcast brings you the people, practices, and ideas of Open Educators from around the world. I am your host, Alan Levine, and this is another in our series of bringing to you the voices of the OE Global Board.

This episode is a combination of conversations recorded in late April 2024 with Maria Soledad Ramirez Montoya, or Marisol, Senior Researcher at the Institute for the Future of Education at the Tecnológico de Monterrey in Mexico, and also our Board Chair, Perinne de Coëtlogon, Policy Officer and Project Manager, for Open Education and Digital Identity at the University of Lille in France.

As a global organization, we have experimented a bit in this episode and we'll move between three different languages. In our first segment, my questions were posed in English to Marisol and she responded in Spanish. My conversation with Perrine was mostly in English, but for one section I asked her specifically to respond in French.

I put the capabilities of our digital Descript editing suite to work here, and you will find in the published podcast, a multilingual transcript, as well as translations of the full episode into Spanish, French, and English. So join us in this multilingual conversation with our OE Global board members.

And first join us on a virtual trip to the city of Monterrey, Mexico.

Buenos dias. Hello, everybody. Welcome. I'm Alan Levine from OE Global, and I'm very excited to have a conversation with one of our OE Global board members. And we're talking this morning to Maria Soledad Ramirez Montoya, or as we call her, "Marisol," coming to us from, I would guess, Monterrey, Mexico. So how are you this morning, Marisol?

And because we do things different here. I'm going to ask my questions in English and, Marisol will respond in Spanish. We're just going to experiment with that as, a format. So say hello and, tell us where you're sitting right now and about your location in Monterrey.

[00:02:16] María Soledad Ramírez-Montoya: Voy a contestar, vamos a hacer un experimento con Alan. Y ahora mismo, yo estoy en Monterrey. Me desempeño como profesora investigadora en el instituto para el futuro de la educación en el tecnológico de Monterrey y coordinó la cátedra UNESCO del movimiento educativo abierto para América latina.

También en ide, eh, tenemos una cátedra de recursos educativos abiertos donde también estamos trabajando en en el ámbito hispano parlante.

[00:02:46] Alan Levine: if we went outside, where you are right now, what would we see?

[00:02:53] María Soledad Ramírez-Montoya: Tú me haces esa pregunta, yo diría físicamente estoy en Monterrey, pero mi mente es como la educación abierta es mucho más amplia, por el trabajo con las comunidades en el ámbito de de los recursos abiertos, la ciencia abierta, la educación, y estamos promoviendo diferentes actividades que nos lleven a este crecimiento en conjunto.

[00:03:19] Alan Levine: And I, can tell, I think, with my understanding that I believe you're probably describing the beautiful mountains that are around Monterrey. Can you tell us where did you grow up and, what kind of student were you as a child?

[00:03:34] María Soledad Ramírez-Montoya: Pues, eh, como mi área es el tema de la educación y la innovación educativa, eh, me fui desempeñando profesionalmente en la búsqueda de nuevas posibilidades de prácticas educativas e innovadoras que nos llevaran también a ampliar la visión y la perspectiva de impacto en diversas comunidades y en diversos niveles educativos.

Es ahí cuando me encuentro con el tema de la educación abierta como una posibilidad muy linda para esa visión y ese impacto. Y muy en el ámbito de la democratización del conocimiento, este tipo de educación abierta que nos permite compartir las buenas prácticas, los recursos, la ciencia, el conocimiento y diseminarla para impregnar de una de un enriquecimiento a las diferentes instancias formativas que damos en cualquier ámbito educativo y miss educación preescolar, primaria, secundaria o la universidad. Y entonces es ahí donde yo me encuentro con el tema de la educación abierta y me enamoro. De de ese tema, y empezamos a trabajar en comunidad de redes con con diferentes proyectos de investigación que que teníamos.

Y entonces empezamos a hacer nuevas instancia repositorios abiertos, recursos abiertos, no sólo con la comunidad de mi institución, sino de otras instituciones en México y en Latinoamérica. Y es ahí cuando empieza mi andar en este maravilloso mundo de la educación abierta.

[00:05:18] Alan Levine: I want to read and listen to all that, and I'm going to enjoy reading the translation, which is close. so I don't know. you've done so much in your roles are so important. you're involved with OE Global. You're a UNESCO chair. You're with ICDE. What was your calling to open education because I, don't believe, it was something we got in school early on.

What was the thing that led you into that and tell us maybe a little bit about all the things that-- I'll come to that second question. 

[00:05:54] María Soledad Ramírez-Montoya: Sí. Bueno, pues es que el ámbito de de la educación abierta y los recursos abiertos es increíble. Nos da una posibilidad de ampliación muy grande. Me voy a, eh, me voy a centr en cinco ámbitos y en los cinco ámbitos de lo último que en las recomendaciones que nos ha dado UNESCO para impulsar el tema de la educación abierta.

Por un lado, tenemos la gran tarea de desarrollar las capacidades, desarrollar todo esta cuestión de creación, acceso reutilización de las posibilidades de la educación abierta por otro ámbito. Tenemos también la gran tarea de las políticas de apoyo para la educación abierta, tanto en las instituciones como en los gobiernos y a nivel global que nos hagan impulsar las actividades y las estrategias de la educación abierta. 

Luego tenemos otro ámbito muy amplio y donde es muy retador también, para hacer más inclusivo el acceso más equitativo de esta educación abierta con miras a que lleguen a las diversas poblaciones y atención a los grupos vulnerables. Tenemos también un área es yo creo que de las más retadoras, eh, qué es los modelos de sostenibilidad para esta educación abierta?

Porque en esos modelos es donde está como toda la infraestructura que nos permita seguir creciendo, seguir planificando y seguir realizando más actividades en el ámbito de este tópico. Y sin duda, sin duda, algo muy importante en en el tema de la educación abierta es la cooperación nacional é internacional que establezcamos con redes con diversas instituciones, trabajando juntos de la mano para que se haga posible ese crecimiento de las instancias de educación abierta.

[00:07:55] Alan Levine: Fantastico. I want to try to say because, the Tec de Monterrey is a large comprehensive system and you have a big role in it. There's many parts to the university and can you give a snapshot view? I've, been to the, one in, Guadalajara, but, there are so many different entities and how does it all work together?

[00:08:20] María Soledad Ramírez-Montoya: Me da mucho gusto, que hayas estado ya por estas instancias. Sí. El Tecnológico de Monterrey tiene 29 campus en todo el país y tiene también fuera de México oficinas internacionales en donde, pues, estamos siempre muy conectados con las actividades que desarrollamos y la institución ha desarrollado diversas instancias en el ámbito de la educación abierta.

Por ejemplo, fue la primera institución privada de México que sacó su política, eh, de acceso abierto con muy apoyados, con un repositorio el que se llama RITEC y que lo tenemos para el mundo en donde la comunidad académica estamos invitados a depositar ahí tanto la producción científica como académica para la diseminación.

Luego también, eh, en la institución se está muy enfocado al tema de portales y de instancias, eh, formativas de infraestructura que pone en abierto el conocimiento para el uso del mundo como son, por ejemplo, el observatorio de innovación educativa que tenemos, y entonces ese observatorio es una plataforma abierta que permite trabajar en las comunidades. Y tú preguntas como hacemos para conectarnos y para hacer todas estas instancias es, eh, pues lo que es precisa precisamente llevar a cabo instancias de diversas disciplinas.

De diversos sectores y departamentos de la misma institución para estar conectados hacia una misma tarea que nos permita el crecimiento. Por ejemplo en el tema, eh, de la formación en educación abierta, pues ahí lo que hacemos es conectarnos no solo el ámbito de los profesores investigadores, sino también los tomadores de decisiones en las diferentes facultades y el área de biblioteca para impulsar el el saber abierto de la institución y también el conocimiento de nuestra comunidad educativa para que podamos seguir creciendo en esa temática.

[00:10:27] Alan Levine: And, for Mexico, what is current focus of interest and, where have you seen some really great opportunities happen in open education, especially for Mexico?

[00:10:37] María Soledad Ramírez-Montoya: Bueno, pues, eh, si hablamos de de del país en México, creo que en el hoy por hoy es está centralizado en en un ámbito de colocar la ciencia en abierto. Entonces, hace unos años, hace 10 años, aproximadamente salió también la política nacional de acceso abierto. Y por medio del consejo nacional de ciencia y tecnología, se nos invitó a las instituciones para que todos los proyectos que estuvieran apoyados por fondos públicos. Hiciéramos esa producción en abierto y que tratáramos de incentivar esas prácticas entonces así empezó en en sus orígenes a nivel nacional con la política. Y ahora mismo, en las actividades que llevamos a cabo, están en las convocatorias siempre como una alerta, una solicitud para que los proyectos que nosotros realicemos y que vienen de fondos públicos de México. Coloquemos en abierto el conocimiento entonces eso es lo que se está trabajando mucho actualmente a nivel país.

[00:11:48] Alan Levine: Again, you're involved with, Open Education Global. I know you do much with our efforts for OE LATAM and your focus too, with the, Institute for the Futures of Education, has a large emphasis. Can you say more broadly how the field is looking for, Spanish speaking open education. The big question is like, how do we work together, in so many different places?

[00:12:15] María Soledad Ramírez-Montoya: Sí, me a mí me parece fantástico, la oportunidad que nos da Open Education Global, eh? De confluir a a la comunidad académica de diversos, eh? Eh de diversos continentes y por lo tanto, también en diversas lenguajes que hablamos. Por eso te pedía que que que me dieran la oportunidad de hablar en español, eh como una actividad que dentro de la del Open Education Global. 

Nosotros tenemos como tarea para movilizar a las comunidades en los diferentes contextos. Y en específico aquí en el ámbito hispano parlante yo creo que tenemos un un gran movilizador con con el nodo que tenemos hispano parlante de Latinoamérica y también que abarca España, por supuesto, Iberoamérica en donde lo que podemos seguir haciendo para crecer en Open Education Global son actividades como esta que estamos realizando ahora mismo.

Donde conversemos sobre la temática, las preocupaciones también en el ámbito de la educación abierta en nuestros contextos. Y por otro lado algo que nos va seguir ayudando a crecer dentro de la organización es tener proyectos de colaboración juntos, tanto proyectos de investigación cuando consigamos fondos de financiamiento.

Cómo proyectos que llevemos a cabo de manera conjunta organizados, por ejemplo, como algo que hacemos en la eh en en la cátedra UNESCO del movimiento educativo abierto cada dos años, organizamos una estancia internacional donde convocamos a la comunidad académica hispano parlante a trabajar en proyectos de educación abierta.

Y Open Education Global siempre está con nosotros como un, como un parer muy especial porque unimos fuerzas para ir juntos hacia ese crecimiento. Entonces, eh, cómo podemos seguir creciendo en esto pues trabajando juntos? En redes, en comunidades para la formación para la innovación, la investigación que nos permitan ampliar el horizonte de la educación abierta.

[00:14:33] Alan Levine: And I know you're part of these discussions and aware that, there's decisions or hopes for the next conferences. And, I'd really like to see one in Mexico or maybe a group of institutions from South America. Would you like to see that? I see your thumbs up. How can that come to happen?

[00:14:53] María Soledad Ramírez-Montoya: Sí. Para hacer lo posible, pues estamos invitados vamos a a lanzar la la convocatoria ahora en unos días. Y Open Education Global va a ser un movilizador para dar a conocer este evento y para, ojalá que nos encontremos aquí, Alan, estás atentamente invitado? Por supuesto, porque estamos trabajando juntos las diferentes redes y para en este impulso de actividades. 

En esta oportunidad que tenemos de trabajo conjunto. Tengo una gran noticia para ti de que vamos a celebrar. Vamos a estar de fiesta porque vamos a tener nuestro 10º aniversario de la cátedra UNESCO. Y entonces esa va a ser una fiesta espectacular donde vamos a confluir.

Los que hemos estado participando, voy a adelantar entre las sorpresas de los regalos que vamos a tener en esta fiesta es de que vamos a tener un libro de acceso abierto con las prácticas de educación abierta que hemos desarrollado a lo largo de estos 10 años y que nos dan un diagnóstico bosquejo de cómo hemos ido creciendo en el tema de la educación abierta. 

La convocatoria va a salir en unos días y y, por supuesto, Open Education Global, vamos a estar ahí muy conectados para diseminar la invitación y te esperamos en Monterrey. Van a ser las dos últimas semanas de enero del 25. Y vamos a estar aquí en el campus Monterrey.

Así que bienvenido Alan y a toda la comunidad.

[00:16:25] Alan Levine: I'm going to interpret that means I might get a chance to come to Monterrey in the future, but we'll, see about that. 

When we publish this podcast, the nominations will have just opened for the Open Education Awards. And, I'd like, first of all, to hear your thoughts about the importance of recognition and the community recognizing each other.

Then I want you to make a strong appeal in Spanish, for that community to really, fill our database with nominations.

[00:16:54] María Soledad Ramírez-Montoya: Estamos muy emocionados porque ya va a salir ahora en mayo la convocatoria para los Premios de Open Education y estamos diseminando la información para animarnos a las comunidades a a a enviarnos sus proyectos, su conocimiento, lo que ha que estado.

Pues es fabuloso, maravilloso ver todas las joyas que se dan en el mundo sobre diferentes prácticas abiertas tanto de libros como de portales repositorios, publicaciones, profesores, estudiantes tenemos. En Open Educación Global una amplia variedad de categorías dónde podemos postular en estos premios. Vamos a invitar mucho invito a la comunidad a que se anime a mandar sus postulaciones porque necesitamos tener mape qué es lo que pasa en el mundo y muy en especial que pasa en el ámbito hispano parlante.

Con la educación abierta es una excelente oportunidad y vamos a estar ahí, al igual que que les invitamos mucho a participar en el Congreso que tendremos de Open Education Global, va a ser en Australia. Entonces en este Congreso vamos a tener tambien está abierta la convocatoria para mandar nuestras comunicaciones de paneles poster. 

También de de de ponencias conferencias para dar a conocer qué es lo que se está gestando en cada uno de ellos. Pues ahí tenemos por parte de la organización dos invitaciones muy próximas. Un lado es la conferencia, propiamente de Open Education Global que tenemos anualmente y por el otro, es la postulación de los premios eh, para que también sea una oportunidad de dar a conocer las joyas que hay en el mundo sobre el tema de la educación abierta.

[00:18:45] Alan Levine: Because it's a thing that many of us are reading about and talking about I want to get first your feeling about the potential problems of artificial intelligence and what you're seeing going on in the Latin American community to, take advantage of it or to address all the concerns people have.

[00:19:06] María Soledad Ramírez-Montoya: Pues la verdad es que todo avance tecnológico, pues presenta grandes oportunidades-- no para para todos de mejoras en muchos sentidos y y en especial el tema de de la inteligencia artificial es es algo que que emociona, pero también como que nos alerta al ser algo muy nuevo diferente. 

Yo creo que nos da grandes oportunidades, tanto para la educación abierta y en esas oportunidades que nos da es por la automatización de los procesos de una manera más rápida. Es muy importante que nosotros, como comunidad académica, cuidemos mucho la ética, los derechos de autor y todo de tal manera que. Estamos apoyándonos, por ejemplo, en la inteligencia artificial para crear recursos educativos abiertos.

Por colocar la leyenda del apoyo de la inteligencia artificial ante eso. Y también, como es todavía un un área, no es nueva porque ya tiene algunos años, pero está teniendo un gran purge en los últimos tiempos. Verificar que el contenido, la información sea fidedigna y sea pegada a la realidad en el cuanto al contenido.

Porque como inteligencia artificial, se va hacia la red a encontrar de todo tipo de contenido y traerlo. Entonces nos toca a nosotros tener un cuidado ético sobre el contenido y también dar a la atribución ética. De dónde viene ese contenido, eh, para para estar apegados y aprovechar esas ventajas que nos da la inteligencia artificial.

Yo tengo mucha ilusión de todo lo que ahí se se está gestando. Pero también, eh, tenemos que entrar muy fuertemente a a acompañar con todo nuestra experiencia en en la consolidación y la mejora que nos proporciona este tipo de desarrollos y de tecnologías.

[00:21:03] Alan Levine: Bueno. let's see. I'm thinking about, first of all, like you do so much, Marisol. You've got all these big roles. what's your secret to do so much? And you have such enthusiasm and excitement and, I would like a cup of what you have.

[00:21:25] María Soledad Ramírez-Montoya: Te lo digo mi secreto. Bueno, mi secreto es correr todos los días en la mañana, hacer ejercicio, por supuesto, para abrir la mente. Y luego estar, muy emocionado. Y que me guste mucho lo que hago. Entonces, esa motivación es lo que me permite también a mí como confluir en los diferentes ámbitos.

El secreto principal está en la integración de lo que se hace. En cada en las actividades, por ejemplo, el tema de la educación abierta como entra con mis actividades de profesora, donde puedo aprovecharlo como entra también dentro de mis actividades como investigadora y cómo llevar esa visión global hacia las comunidades eh, con las que participo a través de la cátedra UNESCO y de las actividades de red en las que nosotros estamos.

Entonces, el secreto principal está en tratar de integrar en teniendo siempre el foco hacia donde. Quieres apuntalar el crecimiento del área que que se está trabajando. Ese es mi secreto y mi principal secreto es esa integración y que de verdad es un ámbito que yo disfruto muchísimo trabajar.

[00:22:41] Alan Levine: I'm noticing behind you, I see, Van Gogh's Starry Night. I'm curious, what's a rewarding activity that you do outside of work? What rejuvenates or gives you energy to do away from the work?

[00:22:53] María Soledad Ramírez-Montoya: Bueno, pues como todos estamos, ~eh,~ muy preocupados por la paz en el mundo, entonces es así como como una una preocupación y una ocupación que nos toca a todos trabajar por por por ese bienestar de la sociedad. Y en esa en esa preocupación, bueno, pues aquellos que tenemos la tarea, eh, de estar en los ámbitos de la formación de personas y de construcción entre todos.

Creo que tenemos ahí una aventura. Eh muy importante para para dar oportunidades hacia en ese ámbito, eh, de bienestar para la sociedad. Entonces, eso es algo que que es lo que lo que me gustaría mucho, que que siguiéramos trabajando para fortalecernos como personas y seguir creciendo en esta sociedad y en el mundo que nos ha tocado vivir.

[00:23:50] Alan Levine: And then last, this is Alan's wildcard question. Because we've talked a little bit about awards. when I say in terms of open education, when I say the words recognition, what are three words that come to your mind when I say recognition? 

[00:24:06] María Soledad Ramírez-Montoya: Reconocimiento es este lo. Las tres palabras que se me viene son luces. Son como destellos y como ay se me se me viene la como "luces", "destellos" y también, que no quiero usar la misma palabra. Como "la oportunidad" de diseminar esa esa práctica abierta. 

[00:24:32] Alan Levine: Thank you for taking the time. I am excited to edit this podcast in two languages. I use some software that uses some AI and I think I can do some translation. For my work, I find that some of the translation functionalities of artificial intelligence are very valuable and especially, for global organizations like ours.

And so I just want to thank you again, for putting up with my English questions and, having a fine conversation and just, thank you so much, Marisol.

[00:25:04] María Soledad Ramírez-Montoya: Muchas gracias, Alan. Lo he disfrutado mucho, eh? Me ha encantado hablar así en los dos lenguajes y estoy muy emocionada. Muchas gracias por estas, por estas luces que ustedes están aportando a través de estos podcasts. Muchísimas gracias y un abraz

[00:25:20] Alan Levine: And I will have to practice my poquito español 

[00:25:24] María Soledad Ramírez-Montoya: Muy bien. 

That was the first of our two conversations in this episode featuring OE Global board members. From the mountains of Mexico, we traveled to the north of France, close to the border with Belgium, to speak to our board chair, Perrine de Cöetlogon.

[00:25:48] Alan Levine: Welcome, here we are again in the OEG Voices studio. I'm very excited to bring to you one of our board members, and not only our board members, our board chair, Perrine de Coëtlogon, who's coming, she'll tell us where she's coming to us from, but this is part of our series of having conversations with the board members to share them with our audience and hear what's important to them and what's going on at the board level. 

So how are you? It's in your evening time, Perrine. where exactly are you located right now? And tell us like, what would be outside? I can see a little through the windows, but describe it for us.

[00:26:25] Perrine de Coëtlogon: Bonjour, Alan. Hello, everybody. Indeed, it's the afternoon here, the end of the afternoon. And for you, it's maybe morning or afternoon or night. And, yes, I am Perrine de Coëtlogon. I work at the University of Lille. This is my office.

It's a huge university with 80,000 students. And I like it very much to work, in, in, in this area, because as you see, there are many trees around on the scientific city of the town of Villeneuve-d'Ascq, that is close to Lille in the north of France, very close to Belgium, actually. So this is where I am but I am from the western part of Paris, in the suburb.

I grew up in a town close to Versailles, that is called Saint-Germain-en-Laye. And, then I went to study, close to Paris. And finally, one year in Germany, in the Potsdam University. I studied law and German law. This is why I spent one year doing LL.M. and private law. And I came back and I, lived in Paris after having, passed the bar exam of Paris.

So I've been a lawyer for seven years and then I arrived in Lille and I, completely changed for career. I became a journal secretary of a public interest group which funded, open educational resources and the day I heard of the concept, I thought this should change the world and this is why I became an activist.

I am here with you, Alan, today.

[00:28:08] Alan Levine: Fantastic. as a child outside of Paris, what were you like as a student, what did you think of school? And were you an avid student? Were you interested in school? What was, your education experience like as a child?

[00:28:25] Perrine de Coëtlogon: Until 10 years, was my years in life at school because, I was a very successful, little child. I even, passed a year and was then a young pupil, but then, it changed. I became an average person like everyone. And, I went to a specific boarding school called La Légion d'Honneur, the Legion of Honour, funded by Napoleon. I had a uniform and we were only girls, so it was in the middle of the forest, close to where I grew up. So this was, different from many education experiences, but still a very lively experience with other, girls being in a boarding school is a nice education experience too. 

[00:29:18] Alan Levine: As a child, did you know what you wanted to be as an adult? 

[00:29:21] Perrine de Coëtlogon: Yeah, I first dreamed to be a surgeon, but I was very bad in in scientific anatomy. So finally, I discovered that I really loved philosophy. It was very close to my A level, the end of the educational system that is called Baccalauréat in France. And, but I, wouldn't go to just study philosophy.

So what I did is I studied German and law. This is how it ended up. I thought that law was a. a way of, of being close to, this reflection and, close to philosophy, but that I might have more jobs opportunities because of course, in many cases, you first think of education as a way to go to society and earn your life.

[00:30:22] Alan Levine: Obviously you went in with this interest in law, came to Lille and, you mentioned that, you made this shift, but what was it that, changed you from that path? What was it right away about open education that caught your interest? 

[00:30:37] Perrine de Coëtlogon: I was ready for another kind of career and this is, in particular because of my family life, I had, had my first child and I was married to my husband who went to Lille,but I never regretted that shift. 

At that time, at least in France, it was not so common and nobody said anything and I was not prepared to that shift.

And nobody tried to train me. So I had to learn by myself. and I must say that today, for example, as a chair of the board of Open Education Global, I really much enjoy looking for good open education resources on my new competencies that I have to develop and the skills. 

At the time, I really just discovering from one day to the other, the origin of the internet. And it's true, Alan, that in 1995, I hadn't touched any computer in my life, despite I was already 20. And I took a summer job in Germany, where I translated, data from software for the glass industry. So I arrived in Germany in a software company and discovered the people who were developing softwares.

And, everything was new to me. When they said that, there was the internet and that, they could, from where they were in Germany, go to any computer in the world now, not any, but many and, solve and fix bugs. I was so impressed. 

From the summer 95. I read what I could. I tried to understand. And, I discovered many French and German because I, I had this studies in both countries. not many,

but more German than French that were involved in the open movement, actually an open source movement. And that told me there should be freedom on the internet. We like the fact that, everything is free in particular for education. 

Already in 2000, I thought that there were very many lawyers interested in those subjects, but not many companies ready to give a job to such lawyers. So I decided to go for other fields of Law, but still it always stayed in my mind that, informatics and education was the future, a desirable future. 

[00:33:22] Alan Levine: I, love this story because you went there for other reasons to work with this software company and it exposed you to this opportunity that helped shift your interest. Those are my favorite stories. 

There are so many things that you're involved with and, leading and running. I wonder if you can give a quick list, in your scope of open education, what is most important to you right now and then what are other things that you're really interested that you'd like to focus on? 

[00:33:54] Perrine de Coëtlogon: There are so many items indeed that I could, discuss. I, already wrote for the OEG Connect, I wrote the story of Open Education Global Francophone. So it was in 2020 during the lockdown I was elected as a board member. I was so proud and happy, and I wanted to contribute better to the open education movement. And, I asked Paul Stacey and Igor Lesko, if I could borrow the OEG logo, and, use it, not the trademark in any means, but the mark of OEG and use it to create OEG Francophone. 

From scratch with one service provider, we organized a two days event in November, 2020, just before the Taipei, conference. And we gathered 638 people from, more than 30 countries. And of course, this, was really nice because from the, end of August until November, I call all my network in open education and everyone gave me other names. And we ended up having 21 webinars with 57 different speakers. 

And, I really, like the way my service provider helped me. He's very involved in the comments too, in his way. And, so he told me to not to try to organize the program, but to give people. sessions and that they decide what the favorite thematic would be, the favorite subject. And very, rapidly, Colin de La Higuera, for example, he said, "I would like to speak on artificial intelligence and OER", and there were, another fantastic, colleague from Paris who wanted to speak about the same subjects. 

And then they asked me to find a chair, and all together, it made a fantastic session already from the first minute on the thematic, and everyone could request a session, and so this is how, in just two days, we had 21 webinars. 

And one of them was how to create an OER in the African context, which is more the West Francophone context. Another one said, I am going to search for all the projects funded in the European Union on that thematic. As you can imagine, it ended up in a fantastic t opportunity for many people to join, to discover. And then again, my service provider said, next you have no time to write a newsletter, but I have provided you with a website where people can say they are interested.

We collected in a while, in let's say 18 months more than a thousand people who were interested and that I am now have grown up to 1700 people who are invited every month to a webinar on various subjects.

[00:37:19] Alan Levine: You have a huge network. That is impressive. What you describe is like an unconference format where people said, these are the things I'm interested in. and and then it all came together. But, what, a huge, outcome. And now it's becoming a little bit more, official or solidified within OE Global, which we're very happy about.

Is it even possible to generalize across the, Francophone world, what they're interested in now? I would think artificial intelligence, obviously. I just saw the new, badging initiative from the, from Canada. what are other things that people in that community are really focused on?

[00:38:06] Perrine de Coëtlogon: Well you are speaking about Canada. So Canada adopted a strategy on open education. And I invited Catherine Lachaîne at the end of August for the first webinar of the year. And she was able to, with her colleague, Melanie, to speak about this, this strategy that is impressive because we have been all in Edmonton, And, we saw that there are people who were already hired, it's not like just words, it's, phones and people hired.

And so it's, good to know that, a special focus has been made by Canada on Francophone resources. And, there was also an initiative from the UNESCO and the French Development Agency, in Dakar, on educational resources. It was not called open educational resources, but in the end we did spoke a lot about, open educational resources and also about culture and, regular library books for schools. And there were 14 delegations, from Francophone countries. It was really a fantastic event. 

I was invited because I was, an expert, but also because I was already a member of, of the board. So you see what Open Education Law does to people. And, now I'm thinking of, of Jules, one of, the benevolent of OEG.

He's from Cameroon, and he, was always the one who, called me back and said, this was good. I want more. I want to help you. And I needed that because you need some recognition. You do a lot. People come, et cetera, but you need people who are enthusiastic about it. And he's a mathematic professor, at school, and, and I love the fact that, he told me, we need such events because that not so many initiatives in Cameroon. I discovered thanks to him, that he had already studied one year in France. He has a master in, instructional design.

And he has, also, followed, open educational resource that is called Le Program [unclear]. And so he's very much. involved, but he wanted to contribute more and now he's able to do it. 

So there are initiatives, but not enough. And I really hope to have more interest and funding in OEG Francophone as soon as possible.

[00:40:56] Alan Levine: You're magnetic. People come to you and because obviously what you're doing is important, but to be able to pull together so many for these activities and focus is absolutely what a global organization should be doing. 

[00:41:11] Perrine de Coëtlogon: And this is not my real job. 

My real job at the University of Lille, it's more about transforming the way people receive receive a diploma certificate. And it means that, we have to issue this.

And it's a lot about issuing a certificate of completion of the diploma and knowing this, that the students, massively use them. And, reinventing what they are, diplomas, what their content and, also that the, other university who have to verify them or employers who have to verify the diploma can easily do it.

When you begin to work on that. And the lockdown played a role, because at some point, in September, 2020, the director of the registrar department asked me to go for it. We have set already 60, 000, certificate of diploma, translated, stamped in a blockchain Avalanche, for the time being, but soon in the European blockchain service infrastructure.

Once you have done that, people come to you on micro credentials, on competencies, on supplement of the diploma. This is the European Union. And they come about the future of European diplomas. This is really a thematic that I bound to open education. That is for me, the future of open education too, because, there will be a way to certify that you are really learning on distance.

This is very important to OER, I think, because as long as they are not recognized, fully recognized. that can be underestimated by people, which is a pity. In the way I work. I never lose the interest of the people, in the end.

And if they are not recognized, it's also about open badges and the the open recognition movement. people won't go for it. 

These are my main three subject ,the diploma use case leading to open badges, open recognition, but first, the educational contents. 

[00:43:36] Alan Levine: Well, perfect segue. Speaking of recognition, I'll make the connection here. We're currently at the timing of this, it's May 14th, and we just opened the nominations for the Open Awards for Excellence. , It's great because we get to celebrate the winners and, that piece.

But what we've been doing all along is we want to celebrate everything. We want to surface as many nominations as possible because that's what's important. Yes. It's, great to win, but it's really important to highlight all the work that's going on. 

Might you be thinking, and you don't have to say what it is right now, but are you thinking about who or what, you might nominate this year?

I'm going to be putting out an invitation to the board members, because they're involved in so many things, they're all gonna be tasked with nominating. And then as in the earlier part, when you're describing, the evolution of the OEG Francophone, you kept mentioning your "service provider"-- a person that sounds like, a catalyst, the person who makes things happen. Who is that person? Let's give that person some credit here. 

[00:44:44] Perrine de Coëtlogon: Yes, it's Romuald. It's, it has, he has become a friend of mine, Romuald Ramon. And, he also lives in Lille, not far from where I live. I met him on LinkedIn. And when I discovered his profile, I thought, oh my God, he knows how to do things. I wanted to use the tool that nobody in education uses like "web marketing", but he could also organize a conference and a website and give me some advice to find people with the web marketing tools.

And be dedicated and take good pictures like you did, at the beginning. So for the 21 webinars, he also thought of this to give a good picture of what had happened. And they're still on my LinkedIn profile because i, have those coming regularly and I think good work, He also, understands really well the Commons.

It was, easy and a pleasure to work with him and discover his world. And he's also a man of networks. He organized a lot of networking for people. 

[00:45:56] Alan Levine: It sounds like an ideal person to nominate for an individual award. Would you be willing maybe to make an appeal, in French to the Francophone world, to ask them to, consider the people and projects to nominate for the 2024 awards. We're taking nominations now through the end of June. .

Also, you can mention that they do not have to write in English. We, allow nominations if people prefer to write in French, and, if they can be more clear about the, reasons for their nomination, we strongly encourage that. 

But, would you be willing to be, make the public service announcement in French for the open awards. 

[00:46:38] Perrine de Coëtlogon: Bonjour à tous, il existe chez Open Education Global un formidable appel à candidature pour obtenir des récompenses officielles en tant que leader de l'Open Education ou technicien, ingénieur pédagogique de l'Open Education et bien d'autres titres de... Qui ont été imaginées et conçues par une équipe ouverte et qui sont formidables.

Il faut aller voir déjà les catégories. Moi, j'adorerais les adapter en français et faire un appel francophone. Mais là, avec les outils qu'on a maintenant pour traduire, et Alan qui vient de m'apprendre qu'on pouvait faire une candidature en français, je vous invite tous à venir candidater tous les amoureux de l'éducation ouverte.

À candidater et je ferai passer à tous ceux qui ont participé à mes webinaires notamment cette proposition après il faudra rédiger un peu quand même parce que les candidatures des anglo-saxons sont toujours très impressionnantes et très bien rédigées donc merci à tous les contributeurs de l'Open Education et à très bientôt. Au revoir.

[00:47:55] Alan Levine: Thank you. That was fantastic. And I love having this in French.

You do so much. I'm a bit overwhelmed at how much work and energy you put into things. What is a rewarding thing that you do away from this? What's your hobby, or thing that you enjoy doing to be away from this work? 

[00:48:15] Perrine de Coëtlogon: My family. My family is my best hobby. It's more than a hobby, Having three children

now, it's a lot of work and a husband, not only children. And, yes, family is a very important support. And also I love that it's so challenging because you get more, open minded and you learn from what young people think. You are more aware in my case, it's a lot of work.

So if you ask for my hobbies, I could say other things, but I would say that for the time being, just when I do not work, take care of my family is the most important for me. 

[00:49:01] Alan Levine: Couldn't be a better thing to do. there anything else you would like to add as the chair of the board to have a message out there as to, what you want to forecast for this organization? 

[00:49:13] Perrine de Coëtlogon: What I was doing just before we spoke is to work on the bylaws. So for many people, it's, quite boring, bylaws and law in general.

But I am very proud to be in charge of writing those bylaws. I feel liable to have something that is, bound to the reality of what is Open Education Global now, how it should be organized and to cover any, situation that could happen. Actually this is a responsibility that I like because it, it reminds me of my former life when I was a lawyer, a corporate lawyer. I really appreciate to, to have set up a committee and that it is almost done.

Being a president, I can see how much work it has become in comparison with being just a board member. But, I don't regret it. On the contrary. I have so many projects, Alan, that I am able to fulfill because I am a president too. 

[00:50:18] Alan Levine: We're fortunate to have a lawyer and an open educator, leading the board. So many thanks.

My last question, when I say, " Open recognition" what are the three words that come to your mind and you can say them in French. What are the three words that, that leaped your mind when I say open recognition?

[00:50:37] Perrine de Coëtlogon: It's " recognized" what you are. You said three words, so it's a sentence, but-- 

[00:50:44] Alan Levine: You can break the rules. That's fine. 

[00:50:47] Perrine de Coëtlogon: I knew I could with you, We are open. So in open recognition, I love the fact that you have to recognize where people are, what they have become, what they can build on to improve and to develop self esteem and make it. The most important maybe then after this first step is of course to make visible what people didn't know, and they didn't know it themselves, but then they can share it with others.

So I really like, the ideas and, I, I. We have already done a little work, sorry, I'm a bit long, that I like at my university. It, was to take the students who already work, so they want to have money, they don't want another diploma. They can leave the university having worked for three years and not being recognized for this. 

And this is how we have created the first open badge for the people working in the library, on, explaining what the PhD is to any students, to international delegation, to young pupils, that come to discover what university is. And, this was done with the designers, pedagogical designers, so that we have expressed what they did, with the European competence framework. And so you see one day it will be ready that all these data is interoperable and really give another chance to people to be recognized.

[00:52:29] Alan Levine: This is fantastic. Thank you so much for taking the time. I'm so fortunate to have these conversations with the board and the people in the community. And I just really appreciate you sharing all the things that you're interested in. And, and, that's the purpose of our conversations here. 

Well, thank you for listening to this episode of OE Global Voices. That's the podcast we do here at Open Education Global. Each episode features a different music intro and outro track selected from the Free Music Archive. For this show in our board viewpoint series, we chose the track "Enjoy the View" by Lazenby Industries, which is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license.

You can find this episode at our site, voices dot oeglobal dot org, and we hope you engage in follow up conversations with our board members, who are all very active in our OEG Connect community at connect. dot oeglobal.dot org. If you're listening and want to be in the studio with us, share your own open education or suggest someone we should have in here, please let us know via our website or email us at voices at oeglobal dot org and tune in again for our next episode of OE Global Voices.