Episode 079: Confident Supervisors Signifincat Impact OER === Intro Music and Opening Quotes --- [00:00:00] Jill Blacker: I think Susan's passion for this area infected everybody who's been part of it. It's been a wonderful experience. I'm so proud of the book. I'm so proud of the work that we all put into it and that it's being so well received across the globe is I think, really reflective of everybody's willingness to share knowledge and to come together and be collaborative, support all our colleagues wherever they may be located. Navigating Academia as a Foreign Student --- [00:00:44] Santosh Jatrana: Navigating the complexities of academia in a foreign language, in a foreign country and a culture can be very overwhelming. This is where the supervisors play a transformative role. And the responsibility we carry is profound. So by equipping supervisors with practical tools and strategy, we can bridge the gap between the students' unique challenges and their academic aspirations. Podcast Introduction and Project Overview --- [00:01:18] Alan Levine: Hello everybody, and welcome. This is Alan Levine from Open Education Global and I'm very-- I'm very excited to be doing this podcast recording on Wednesday, October 30th. And we are here with a wonderful group of people representing, a project that won one of the Open Education Awards for Excellence in 2024 for the Significant Impact OER. And it's a fantastic project that they're gonna tell you about and the reasons for being involved with it. It's called Confident Supervisors and it's a real comprehensive, and, when you see the amount of, collaboration and coordination between the team that produced it, you'll be as impressed as-- as our reviewers were. Meet the Team Behind Confident Supervisors --- [00:02:02] Alan Levine: And so we're really excited to introduce to the podcast, Susan Gasson, who's gonna talk to us a little bit about how this came to be. And then she's gonna just help us meet the-- our, our panel here of authors and people involved in this project. And I think you're gonna hear a lot of enthusiasm. Hello and welcome Susan. and if everybody you know, you can, because we're assembled from quite different points in the globe, let us know where you are and you can even tell us what time of day it is. [00:02:35] Susan Gasson: Hello Alan. Thank you so much to join for joining us from Canada at seven o'clock at night. It is 11 o'clock in the morning here in Brisbane. I acknowledge the Indigenous peoples of this land. I'm in Meanjin on Turrbal Land and I have a lovely Indigenous painting above my head as well, just to keep that all in tune. Susan Gasson's Journey and Project Genesis --- [00:02:57] Susan Gasson: I am currently an adjunct professor with James Cook University as a higher education worker. I've been a manager and worked with Jill at the Queensland University of Technology for a number of years, in the graduate school. And then I went up to James Cook to be an, a coordinator of post professional development for supervisors. And it was in that role, working with Professor Christine Bruce, who's one of the editors of the book, that we realized that as a regional and remote university, their potential to continue to extend my position may be in doubt. And that it may be timely to think about building a resource that would keep things going if my position didn't continue, which is what happened. And so as I was completing my own PhD and starting my phase as an early career researcher, I thought, it's be another string to my bow to have a book. And, so we approached Claire Ovaska, who's from the library who, said, "yes, we do open books. We know how to do this. We'll give you a hand" and introduced us to the wonderful Alice Luetchford, who has a fabulous team of people and a lovely open access platform and guided us through creating a page and making, it possible for us to, realize the end product for this. So it was then a business for me of gathering together an editorial board and then identifying people who could contribute to the book. Challenges and Solutions in Supervisory Practices --- [00:04:40] Susan Gasson: And what we were really looking for was to provide supervisory practice information to very much be a get up and find what you need to know to supervise, maybe in five minutes, with somebody who you've got an issue with, or work with a supervisor who perhaps you wanted to invite onto the team, but you're not sure how to make that happen. So a really, immediate kind of quality to it. So each of the chapters begins with, three sort of, or three to five points saying, "why would you read this chapter? Whatcha gonna find out?", a little, video that just introduces the author and tells you a little bit about it, and then some, an introduction, some crunchy content, and then each chapter finishes off with some resources. So some of those are reading, some of those are, forms and guidelines and principles and samples. And, some of them are just frameworks and procedures and handouts and workshop, and seminar resources. So very different sorts of things all aimed at helping supervisors, supervisor developers, and leaders of supervision within universities and within research centers to be able to build these, collaborative cultures where supervisors feel supported, feel enabled, and build capacity to create the next generation of researchers. Impact and Reach of the Open Access Book --- [00:06:17] Susan Gasson: So the collaboration covers 30 different researcher researchers and researcher developers from four different countries and from lots of different institutions. And I think that diversity's reflected in the impact that we've had. We've now almost reached 4,000 reads, which is extraordinarily exciting. And we've got readers from around the globe and very quickly they began to give us feedback and we thought we'd get-- we've created this open access book, everybody can read it. And then I kept on getting these emails from people saying, I can't. I can't access it. How do I access it? And it turned out that they were from developing countries where they couldn't read the book online. It was not possible for them to stay connected for long enough to be able to read it. So Claire and the team said, "We'll just create a downloadable book." That's fine, and that- that built a another groundswell of thanks from the community, from people saying yes. And somebody came back to me and said, we've decided to use it as a reading. Can I just print 30 copies and give them to people? 'cause they can't access the internet at all. And I said, yes, do it. Use as much paper as you need. But Ideally, we would love people to see it as an interactive tool and to find it valuable. My contribution to the book was, mainly through the three first chapters of the book, which are really sort of foundational ideas about approaches to supervision. So Christine and Ian had done a research study that I was tangentially involved in, and we really talked about, three different approaches to supervising-- supervision, which we're about structuring it, managing it, and building relationships, and that's what that chapter talks about. The next chapter builds on my thesis and talks about notions of time, and students increasingly talk about difficulties in managing. And making the most of their time. And so we've ident, I've identified six notions of time that supervisors can discuss with their students to manage different barriers and different challenges and different opportunities, that they may need to realize. And then there's a chapter, unsurprisingly, on research collaboration and just really emphasizing that having collaborative teams of supervisors, but also reaching out to the research services teams around universities and getting additional support is critical to making all of this work. Santosh Jatrana on Supervising International Students --- [00:08:56] Susan Gasson: I'm going to hand over now to, Santosh Jatrana, who's joining us from Switzerland, who wrote a fabulous chapter for us, about working with students from non-English speaking backgrounds, and particularly from India. And, Santo's knowledge of this space is based on being a supervisor for many years and working with, primarily with students from India. Santosh, if you can join us now and say a few words, that would be lovely. [00:09:30] Santosh Jatrana: Thank you Susan. Thank you for this opportunity to speak, and thank you for inviting me to contribute to the book. I'm currently at Deakin University. I'm a professor there. I'm a demographer and a social epidemiologist by training. I'm really honored to have covered the chapter Supervising International Higher Degree Researchers From non-English Speaking Countries, a tool to support success. I got involved with this project when Susan and I, we were discussing the various chapters and themes of the book, and I posed a question, :Susan, what about supervising higher degree researchers from non-English speaking countries?" As I come from one of those and, both as a student, as a supervisor. And we both immediately saw the importance of addressing this topic, and we decided then and there that we will write a chapter together. And in our contribution, we explore the unique challenges faced by international SDR from non-English speaking countries, and we present a six phase tool designed to support them through the often complex journey towards, successful completion. Mind you, there, there is the different system in the countries and coming to Australia, they may face with the journey that is pretty complex. I think what makes this work particularly meaningful to me is this potential to drive real world change by fostering, I'll say more inclusive and supportive research environment, because supervisors are very pivotal in shaping not only the academic success, but also the overall experience of their students for international higher degree researchers, particularly those from non-English speaking backgrounds. Navigating the complexities of academia in a foreign language, in a foreign country and a culture can be very overwhelming. This is where the supervisors play a transformative role. And the responsibility we carry is profound. So by equipping supervisors with practical tools and strategy, we can bridge the gap between the students' unique challenges and their academic aspirations. These strategies that we suggest are designed to go beyond traditional supervisory methods. When supervisors are empowered to better understand the diverse background of the student, they create a nurturing environment where every student feels valued, supported, and capable of achieving their full potential. Working on this book has been an absolute pleasure. It has been a very incredibly enriching experience. It gave me the chance to reflect on my own journey, both as a former SDR, from a non-English speaking background in Australia, and as a supervisor of interracial students. The process of writing this chapter reinforced the critical importance of understanding cultural linguistic differences and the need to adapt supervisory methods to meet the diverse need of the students. By doing so, we can foster greater independence, confidence, and success in all researchers helping them thrive their academic journey. Regarding the value of the, Confident Supervisor being available as an open access resource cannot be overstated, by making this wealth of knowledge freely accessible to ensure that these insights and tools can be utilized by supervisors around the world regardless of financial or institutional barriers. This open access model amplifies the book's impact, helping to build a global community of confident supervisors who can better support independent innovative researchers. I can tell you, my Indian friends, they are using the book. They always tell me about this, that how wonderful it is, and I feel really proud. I'm really proud to have been part of this important work. I hope the tools and strategies we have outlined will help supervisors everywhere support their students towards successful independent research careers. Thank you and congratulations to all of involved in making this book a reality. Thank you everybody. [00:14:05] Susan Gasson: Thank you so much, Santosh. Those are such, rich and deep thoughts and, so celebratory. I, I really appreciated. It is just such a thrill. Alan McAlpine's Insights on Career Support for HDR Students --- [00:14:16] Susan Gasson: I'm now gonna hand over to Alan McAlpine, who, has a, a-- is a very devoted provider of services. Both Santosh and Alan have given webcasts and helped me write blogs and done so much to promote this book. So my thanks to you, Alan, and congratulations on sharing this award, and thanks for saying some words from Western Australia. [00:14:40] Alan McAlpine: I'm situated in Perth, the Whadjuk Nation, of the Nyoongar people here in W.A.. I probably get the prize for being the earliest, although it's not that early, it's nine o'clock, so it's just a normal workday really for me. Look, it's, a great privilege both to have been part and asked to be part of the-- contribute towards this book, but also to be part of this celebration. And I want to thank Susan for the continued connection that we've had over the years. I,-- we worked together when I was at QUT and probably met, maybe I shouldn't say how many years, but at least 10, 15 years ago probably when we were both at QUT, I think. And Susan reached out to me because at that point in time I was the HDR Careers support for students at QUT. My current role is at Curtin University and I'm the Deputy Director of Student Success. So I still have an oversight of the careers work that we do here at Curtin, but there's a few other things that, that keep me up at night other than just a careers work nowadays. But the career stuff has probably my passion for a long, long while. But that's not where I started. I started as a, biochemist researcher. And that was where I did my HDR qualifications. And I was on that research path for a long while and there came a point in my life for, I, I decided to shift and change. And I think my own experience both as, a, an academic researcher and now working in supporting our students that go through this, these types of experience has informed and makes me think in a particular way. So there's always been a couple of things that have perplexed me. As, like we have, we've steadily grown across the globe, not just here in Australia, the number of students that we put through this HDR experience. But we're still in terms of levels of education of our population, that's still a very small percentage. Yeah, it probably, or at least used to be. It is probably, it's got a little better over the years. It was probably, or the least the students that we least supported in terms of the thinking about who they were and what they wanted to do with their life. And I often analogize it to the moving walkway in an air-- an airport. You stand on that walkway and it goes in this one direction and you can't get off until you get to the other end. And yet we don't provide any support or help to help students think, is that actually where you want to go? And my experience of working as a practitioner was quite often that wasn't where they wanted, or they were a bit confused of where it was actually taking them. So that's what brought me into the career space and supporting HDR students in particular. And so that's what informed a lot of the content of the chapter. And what I wanted to do was provide some tools and tips and techniques to supervisors. But why to supervisors, why did that connection interest me? We know that most universities have a career service ensure we know that we get referrals from academic supervisors or other people within the academy. However, most HDR students see that service as, something that's designed for undergraduates and not for them. That's a perception, and it's not necessarily correct. However, that's a reality for what goes on in a student's head. And we know that students will more often go to the supervisor seeking some career support, career advice, or career help. So how can we best upskill those supervisors to have conversations that are beyond their own experience? Because often they're a product of their own experience as well. And so therefore, we'll give advice, all well-meaning and all very well, but not necessarily something that is overly helpful or opens up the options for that student that's sitting in front of them. So the chapter provides some tools and help helping them-- helping them to help the student think and be empowered to take control of their own destiny. And not necessarily to get into that advice giving type model, but more how do you ask questions that give the students choice, that empower the student to go and find out more information, to empower the student to actually think about what's the right decision for them. And in thinking doing that, we create far more, useful educated people back out into society. Whether that be within the academy or outside the academy, it doesn't really matter. But these are students, are individuals that we are educating to a really high level. So that's really what motivated me to get involved. What is interesting, like I, I have, I'm not particularly someone who particularly enjoys writing, and that's probably why I've pulled out of the academic side of the world. I always had to push myself to get into that space and do a little bit of work. So I think the support that we got from Susan and from the other editors and individuals, part of the book was really fantastic and, helped me through getting to that end point. And just really lovely to see the chapter and the book coming out at the end. And now even getting this recognition that's really, is humbling and great to be involved in. So thank you for, involving me. [00:19:39] Susan Gasson: Thank you so much, Alan. That's just lovely. And I think that journey of, our higher degree research population is so important. There's- they're anticipating, it's currently around 1% of the population has PhDs and they're expecting that to grow to 2%, in the next, 20-- 10 to 20 years. yeah, it's not going away. And making best use of those people is so critical. Claire Ovasca on Open Access and Library Support --- [00:20:05] Susan Gasson: I'm going to hand over next to the lovely Claire Ovasca, who has been so pivotal in us receiving this award and in preparing our nomination, and in making us-- making it possible, but us to have an open book. And I think she'll have some lovely words to say about the value of open access. So thank you very much, Claire, for joining us from Townsville. [00:20:27] Claire Ovaska: Oh, thanks Susan. And I have to say, I've recently moved to Meanjin (Brisbane) so I'm remote worker as well. Until very recently, I've been based in Townsville on the lands of the Bindal and the Wulgurukaba peoples. It is a rural remote university. And I in fact grew up, even further out West Outback, as they say in Australia. And so I'm very aware of the power of education to give people choices. We have had continued experience with scholarship international students coming through the library every year for decades. And upskilling them to reach their full potential. And, through contact with them, I became aware of different educational systems in less advantaged countries, and the lack of-- lack of supports, to achieve your PhD. And so it was a no brainer to contribute a chapter to this book. My co-author Steven Anderson and myself wrote about the research lifecycle and how the librarians can support an individual through the journey from, planning your project and the literature reviews, managing your references, all the way through to publishing, making sure that you share your research to maximize engagements and then measuring impact. But because of our awareness of the less advantaged universities out there, where students don't necessarily have access to librarians and supervisors can't just say, "go and talk to your librarian." We wrote that chapter as if a supervisor was having to do it for him or herself for their students, get the students to do this activity, this is what it's about, and then ask the students about this, thinking about it from-- and asking their questions a lot, like Alan was saying in regards to careers. So that was how we approached our chapter. And as an author I can say that supports from Susan and my editor, Ian Studley, were invaluable to make sure that our work matched that of the book. So it was a consistent resource. And of course, as a librarian, I don't write professionally as a rule, so this was a bit of a different experience for me. The other side I should speak about though is JCU Library's open eBooks platform. So we've been publishing since [20]21, which is not a very long time, but we've reached a very high standard with our works. Every work that gets published is supported all the way through and we make sure everything is ticked off. Correct Creative Commons licensing. Correct copyrights. Good look and feel. We have beta readers. We have a staff member with editing skills. So I can confidently say that every book we publish online is a strong book. But for me, this was a real passion project. And at beginning of this year, I swapped roles from a scholarly communications research librarian role to leading the JCU library open education team and our textbook affordability activities. So it just makes total sense for me to make such a fantastic resource well known and well received. And so looking at our metrics, I can confidently say that we are getting users from those countries that we were hoping to reach. We have strong use in Pakistan, Papua New Guinea, India. And believe it or not, America and the United Kingdom are also strong users. So we just cannot assume that every university in, what is supposedly a first world country, has the resourcing to-- to support their supervisors, to support their HDR students. We recently added an adoption form to the front of all of our published Pressbooks, and so I can share that the book has been published-- sorry,-- adopted by universities in Indonesia, Pakistan, Poland, and America. So it's hard to track adoptions through the Pressbooks platform. So, this is wonderful that I can actually say, we've received those forms back and the Creative Commons licensing that we've applied, we are saying use it. This is our Creative Commons license, just go for it. But we'd just love to know if you're using the book. yeah. And just a real pleasure to work with Susan and the team to create this wonderful resource. Thank you. [00:25:54] Susan Gasson: Thank you so much, Claire. What lovely news about the adoptions. I had-- I didn't know about that. I feel like our foundling has been taken. That's the lovely, news. Jill Blacker on Editorial Experience and Collaboration --- [00:26:05] Susan Gasson: And now, last but definitely not least, the fabulous Jill Blacker, who was on the editorial team and put in huge amounts of work. I actually went on leave for a month in the middle of all of this and Jill kept going, kept the ship on track while I was away, which I really appreciated and is A really important part of this journey. So thank you, Jill for a few words. [00:26:31] Jill Blacker: Thanks, Susan. Thanks everyone. So like everybody, I've worked with Susan in, in different capacities over the last eight years or so. And we've stayed connected. Susan is very much the driver of this book and that having it be such a collaborative piece of work, I think was really important to her. And it's really reflective of how Susan approaches most things. So I, myself and my colleague Abbe Winter, were invited to be part of the editorial team. My current role is, Coordinator of, Research Candidate and Examination. So I'm not in an academic role, but I'm in a role where I support, high degree research students and I can see supervision from the other side, supervisors who have had challenges supervising or students who've had challenges with their degree. My team comes in to help that. So I think those experiences led to me also being invited to co-author a chapter within the book. So I worked with Susan and the Women in Higher Education Group from the Papua New Guinea University of Technology about their experiences. So Susan having that unique lens of editor and co-author was really interesting and something that was a bit new for me, but it was fabulous to, be able to contribute the book in different ways. And, so that chapter was about, the challenges that come with doing high degree research in a developing country, but also the opportunities that come with that. We had a model which put the student at the center, and then we were talking about the university and the broader education community as stakeholders within that model and how that can all work together to-- to create opportunities and to create connections and to create more collaboration, which is, what this whole book is about, anyway. So that was a really wonderful experience and I really enjoyed that. And being on the editorial team was really interesting as well. Everybody was fantastic to work with. It was a surprisingly easy process given just how many collaborators we've had. So you wouldn't-- we did it in 12 months, which I think is quite an achievement really. So just, working with Abbe and Susan and the rest of the team to develop style guides and to connect with the authors and to connect with people that I hadn't worked with before and broaden my own network that way was really helpful. Developing some tools we had, a very big spreadsheet, which was the heart of everything we did and everything was tracked in that spreadsheet. So it's a little bit old school, but it really was the thing that kept us all on track. We could really see where everything was at, and it allowed us to stick to our schedule, building slippage time, and meet our really-- which we thought at the beginning,-- which was a really, idealistic goal of getting it done by the end of last year, and we were able to do that. I think Susan's passion for this area infected everybody who's been part of it. It's been a wonderful experience. I'm so proud of the book. I'm so proud of the work that we all put into it and that it's being so well received across the globe is I think, really reflective of everybody's willingness to share knowledge and to come together and be collaborative, support all our colleagues wherever they may be located. [00:29:55] Susan Gasson: Thank you so much, Jill. Lovely, lovely, thoughts again. So Alan, I was just gonna say a couple more words. Future Plans and Closing Remarks --- [00:30:02] Susan Gasson: We are working on an another volume. In the next volume, we're hoping we'll talk about diversity and equity stages of candidate-ship, use of different methodologies. That thorny question of technologies and the changing face of higher education. And I'd have to say that changing face really was another of the big drivers for the need for this book. because, the demands on supervisors, the diversity of students, the changing capacity of higher education to support supervisors and to support students has meant that this is a really vital resource. And, we're very hopeful that some of the chapters will be available in more than one language. And at the moment we may have chapters in Spanish, Indonesian, and German, so that as well as in English. So that's a really exciting thing to look forward to. We continue to think about the sorts of ways that we can promote this book, and also the work of other authors. I've been approached by other people saying, "I've got some really great resources and I'd like to make them available online, and how do I do that? What's the best way to do that?" and thinking about ways to reach out and make that possible is really important. And I think continuing to disseminate the message of, not only the value of open education and open access, but also the strategies and the practices that make that work well. And that's why we all thank Open Education Global for the award and for the amazing work that you do, Alan, and for the extraordinary awards ceremony and the range of people that we were introduced to through being involved in this process. So thank you very much. [00:32:00] Alan Levine: Thank you. I have to admit, it was hard for me to be silent because I, I wanted to ask questions and it's so exciting, but all of you really spoke to the project so well, and it said so much. On one hand, I have to ask like, how did you co-- this is an incredible amount of coordination and, what was noted in the one of the reviewers was really the impression with the varied and international, not, only just where the perspectives came from, but the focus that really showed the broad range of research, but how did you even come about, like getting all these people involved with this project? [00:32:39] Susan Gasson: This-- I think for me, the joy of it was that everybody, except for one person that I approached-- everybody that I approached said, "Yes, I will write a chapter." Everybody understood it so quickly. and could see the value of it and could see their potential to do their piece. And the only person that couldn't do it actually, had a severe time pressure and, all sorts of issues. And as we've moved into talking to people about doing volume two, again, people are just so open to this idea. They really see the value of it. and see the ease with which they can make that contribution, that it is a realistic ask. I think it's the breadth of it really is just based on the people that we know and their altruism and being part of the project. So thank you all for being part of the project. [00:33:37] Alan Levine: And I know, it's clear about the impact that you see in terms of the usage and where it's done, which is obviously one of the big outcomes and reasons that. we do this open education publishing, but, I'm wondering for some of our, practitioners and authors, what has going through this process like, like done for you in terms of really absorbing and being part of this ethos of being open with the work that we do? Because traditionally it isn't where we start, often is that, we have to we sort have to protect and preserve. [00:34:13] Susan Gasson: I don't know if I-- I invite others to speak to this one as well, but for me, this was probably the first time I have done a, a deliberately open access thing. And I think it was just the excitement of realizing that we could just keep on inviting people to look at it and making it, having it so available. I hadn't realized what a pleasure that is to have somebody contact you and say, "Is there any chance, how much would it be?: And just to say, "Here's the link", is very empowering. Alan, or, Claire. Claire. [00:34:51] Claire Ovaska: Yeah. having been the Scholarly Communications Librarian at JCU while this was happening and it's just part of a gig that you are promoting open access publishing. It's very natural to do so in the open educational resources space. And, the ethos of librarians that we is-- that we wanna make information freely available to everyone. We don't like publisher firewalls and paywalls and all that. Yeah, it was a very natural process for me to say yes, to contribute to this, book. [00:35:32] Alan McAlpine: I haven't really thought about-- and I think I, I'm all for we should be disseminating knowledge and rather than actually holding it to our chest and not giving it away. I understand the concept of why you may have a need to do that, but it made me think about one of the things we did back in the day with Susan was we developed a whole suite of online modules, firstly for HDR students and then laterally for-- for undergraduates. And we quite deliberately put it on Creative Commons license so that other universities could use it and it really spread like wildfire. So it showed me the value of a community of practice that ultimately reaches the end user in a really, very productive way, rather than holding it yourself. And then you're not really achieving anything with that piece of educative work, actually. [00:36:25] Santosh Jatrana: For me, I do my research is on inequalities, health inequalities, or different type of gender inequalities. And I looked at it, the open access, the, the impact on research, dissemination and accessibility. And by making scholarly work freely available to anyone with an internet connection, it breaks down the barriers that traditionally limited access to academic knowledge. And, I think it, it is, the open access, it levels the playing field or offers equal opportunity to engage with global research. And, yeah. So to me that when the idea came, I said, yeah, go for it. It's great. It is, it, is very inclusive, collaborative, impactful, empowering both the academics and broader community with access to valuable knowledge. So yeah, I think I could relate it to my own research. [00:37:30] Susan Gasson: Yeah. Thank you. [00:37:33] Alan Levine: I, again, I, so much appreciate you. I am humbled and honored to be part of this conversation, and I'm really eager to share it with, the rest of our organization. And, we're, OE Global is coming to Brisbane on the 13th through 15th for the conference. I'm pretty sure I saw Claire, on, in the conference and, I, and I know getting to conferences is not a thing that everybody can do. There will be, some portions of the conference will be hopefully live streamed and all the resources will and always be openly available, and we always try to find other ways that people can participate who can't physically come to the conference. But mostly we really are eager to meet more of our Australian colleagues in open education, and there's so much exciting work going on. And again, I really appreciate that you've been able to take the time here, to talk about this work and, say it so beautifully. [00:38:34] Susan Gasson: Thank you so much. Yes. I'm so excited that the conference is here and, and, all the very, very best with that process. I think Australia is uniquely positioned because it is so gigantic, in, in needing to find ways to reach regional and remote centers. We've been trying to do that for a long time. We continue to struggle to make that possible, we are quite passionate about it. [00:38:59] Alan Levine: I've seen feats of collaboration, coordination that small countries can't do. It says a lot about the Australian people. [00:39:08] Susan Gasson: Lovely, it's been lovely meeting you. Thank you so much. And thank you again to everybody. Congratulations to all of us and and we'll all keep in touch. And welcome to Brisbane, Claire. Podcast Conclusion and Credits --- And thank you again for listening to episode 79 of OE Global Voices, the podcast from Open Education Global. It took me a little bit too long to edit this podcast. This was recorded back in, uh, March 30th, 2024. A week before we were in Brisbane for the Open Education 2024 conference, and I was very fortunate to meet a few of the team from confidence supervisors, But we are publishing this now leading up to the opening soon of nominations for the 2025 award. So it's always timely to hear from award winners like this team from the Confident Supervisors Project, definitely a Significant Impact. OER. Each episode of OE Global Voices features a different musical track that I select from the Free Music Archive because. We love good music and it's music made by the people, who are independent musicians, and it's all Creative Commons licensed. For today's show, I selected a track called "Confidence" by an artist known as "1st Contact", and it's licensed under a Creative Commons Attributions Share Alike license. You can listen to this episode and find all kinds of information about the project, links and quotes and more at our website, voices.oeglobal.org, and we hope you engage in follow up conversations with our guests and everybody else in our OEG Connect community, which is connect.oeglobal.org. If you're listening and you think you'd like to share your open education work or share your voice with us, or maybe suggest a future guest or a project we should highlight just let us know via our website. You can send an email to voices@eglobal.org. Thank you, and let's go out with some confidence.