OEG Voices 82: Leading Open Organizations and Small Things, an OEWeek Conversation === Intro Music and Highlight Quotes from Guests --- [00:00:06] Marcela Morales: I absolutely agree how, sometimes we think that we need to rush more than we really do. So giving yourself enough time to get things done as opposed to, I need to do everything immediately. We spend so much time in front of the computers that anything that you can do away from it, we should definitely encourage. And when you give a little bit more thought of the things that you're doing, it will be a better outcome. You will get it right the first time as opposed to having to do it multiple times. [00:00:41] Amanda Coolidge: To me, the best that's come out of the work that I've done is the relationships that I've built, and that is not an efficient process. Relationships take time. And it's not something that an AI is gonna take over for me. Sometimes at conferences I'll meet people and I won't necessarily know who they work for or what they do, but I could tell you what their 12-year-old did and how they did in the basketball tournament, and I could tell you what their favorite food is. But when you say, oh, did you meet, Shira from MIT, I'll be like, "no, I don't know who that is." And then they'll explain and I'm like, oh yeah, I do know, she loves this. And so I think there is something there about that relationship building. [00:01:25] Maren Deepwell: Because, really thoughtful leadership isn't about having a summary of a report that makes you ever more efficient. Now that isn't going to improve the quality of leadership, in my mind. And I've been really thinking about how we can articulate something around the upside of not being ever more productive, particularly in a digital way, and how we can say that certain things just take certain amounts of time. And that investing the time in the processes and in the people, like I'm sure what Amanda is describing in those joyful little videos, could just be a bullet point, if you got AI to summarize the points, but would they be as effective? I don't think so. Welcome to Open Education Week --- [00:02:10] Alan Levine: Welcome. This is Alan Levine from OE Global. We are on Tuesday, March 4th of the second day of Open Education Week. And as we've done a couple times in the past, we record episodes of our OE Global Voices podcast, with some special guests, but we also open it up to other people just to listen in as we record, just to be there as part of the conversation. And I'm really excited to have friends and colleagues here, out of something that just spontaneously emerged about what happened. But I want to give a chance for everybody to say hello and just let me know where you're calling in from. And my, my question this week is what you see out your window. Or if you don't have a window right now what would you see? Meet the Guests: Amanda, Marcela, and Maren --- [00:02:55] Alan Levine: And so I'll say hi first to my good friend Amanda Coolidge. And so happy to see you or hear you, Amanda, 'cause we're on a podcast. [00:03:03] Amanda Coolidge: Hi everyone, Amanda Coolidge, Executive Director of BCcampus. And BCcampus is located on the traditional territories of the Esquimalt and Songhees nations of the Lək̓ʷəŋən peoples. And I'm very grateful to live there and work there. And as I look out my window, I see a little bit of overcast, a little bit of sun trying to peek through, which might be my, my, sign that there's hope, a front. But yeah. Thank you. [00:03:36] Alan Levine: Great, and then I'll flip over to my colleague Marcela. Hola! [00:03:40] Marcela Morales: Hola. So excited to be here. Thank you, Alan for coordinating this session with all of us. I'm super excited to be here and share this space with all of you. I'm Marcela Morales, co-executive director for Open Education Global. And I'm very lucky to have a team that's spread around all over the world. And right now, currently I'm in Cancun. I have some family members that live here. So I'm looking at a beautiful, blue ocean and white sand out my window. Beautiful weather. Everybody welcome. [00:04:11] Alan Levine: That just sounds oppressive, like horrible. [00:04:14] Marcela Morales: We need to do a gathering or something. This area is just so beautiful. [00:04:20] Alan Levine: All right. And of course to, my good friend, Maren. Hello Maren and welcome to the show. [00:04:27] Maren Deepwell: Hi everybody. Great to be with you all. I'm Dr. Maren Deepwell and until 18 months ago, I was the CEO of ALT, the Association for Learning Technology here in the UK. And now I run my own business working with emerging established leaders, in open education and in other industries. And when I look out of the window, I am in Wales here at Cardiff, and I'm right between a very pretty historic castle and a motorway. So I've got a little bit of a contrast when I look out of the window. [00:04:59] Alan Levine: That's great. The Power of Relationships in Leadership --- [00:04:59] Alan Levine: And, we have a thread here that, all three of you are or have experienced leading open organizations and that's a thread we wanna talk about. But I wanna leave it- ask Maren to tell the story of how we even came to have this conversation, 'cause it's a beautiful series of accidents-- not accidents, just a series of events. [00:05:21] Maren Deepwell: That's right. Yeah. And Alan, in some ways it's all, made happen. You are, I think, the red thread that's connecting all these conversations. So while I'm telling the story, it was really me wanting to get more of Alan's stories that encouraged him-- encouraged me to invite him onto a podcast that I do called Leading Virtual Teams. And we were talking about the early days of hybrid working and working on the open web before hybrid working was a kind of post pandemic global phenomenon. And Alan and I had a wonderful conversation. I think we definitely talked about what it takes to make working at a distance, working remotely work. How do you build relationships and how do you make meaningful connections? How do you really build community? And obviously nowadays, Alan does that on a global scale with OE Global. But we took the conversation back all the way to the nineties and the early two thousands and look back at that. And it was a wonderful conversation. And I think we just put the episode out on a Friday. And then on Monday we got an email from Amanda, who is one of the listeners of the podcast. The Joy of Small Moments and Gratitude --- [00:06:38] Maren Deepwell: And Amanda shared some really generous feedback and felt really able to say, oh, I was really inspired by this sort of sharing of how to have a little bit of fun online, how to build these kind of true moments of, having a little bit of joy. And so I think we all felt collectively, that Open Education Week would be a great time to maybe bring out and surface some of the ways in which we can have moments of joy and gratitude, against the backdrop of a lot of social, economic, and political unrest. So I think Alan, I hope this is teeing up the right intro here, but I think this is why we're all here. And I'm really looking forward to this conversation. [00:07:22] Alan Levine: I wanna say It, seems obvious that I think about it. Amanda listened to the podcast and, I'm paraphrasing, and then she said, oh, I'm just gonna drop a short note to Alan and Maren. And, sometimes we forget about that because I know in our work we're trying to communicate with a lot of people all the time and like the impact of those short, small, and meaningful communications really struck me. [00:07:52] Maren Deepwell: Yeah, and I think also -- so for me there's a couple of different strands of work that's coming together. And I think it's interesting when we're talking about working in open, notes or moments like that when you're sharing a quick note of gratitude with someone or appreciation, it's hard to make that part of open practice and always be very open about it. So what I'm interested in with some of this conversation is maybe to think about, how can we articulate some of the things that maybe we leave unspoken when we publish our director's reports or the impact statement for 2025 or whatever it might be. Those small moments that make work really meaningful. And we have a couple of guests in the audience as well listening in and hopefully contributing maybe their experiences also, if there's kind of something that you want to share. But really, I think Alan and I, when we were brainstorming for this is really about, how to try and inject a little bit of joy and meaning on a personal level into what can be a very hectic day-to-day experience. And I don't know, Amanda, if you wanna jump in and, share a little bit from your perspective. [00:09:07] Amanda Coolidge: Yeah, longtime listener of Maren's podcast. And always, I have to say, Maren, the way you ask the question, podcasts and the conversations you have with others. I always get one, at least one, little gem from it. But something about the-- me sending an email of appreciation that really came a lot from the course that I took through your-- you Maren, which was about hybrid workplace environment and how to manage that. And the reason that came up is because you made note at some point in that course, and I'm sorry I can't remember what unit, but, about the importance of giving thanks and giving recognition to people. And I think that's just so important, especially now when we always go from one thing to the next, very rapidly. And a lot of times, I remember seeing this Instagram meme or something where it's why you don't stop to congratulate yourself on something is because you're always raising the bar. We're always trying to do better or we're always like, "Okay, did that awesome. Close that book onto the next thing." And so it's been something that I have intentionally been really working towards, which is, sending snail mail notes to staff after they've done something, if it's bringing people together or potentially, asking a really awesome question that sort of got people thinking. And then when I listened to that podcast, I just thought, oh, that really, inspired me. And it just reminded me of the importance of play in our work and how sometimes when you lead an organization, there's so much operational day-to-day that you forget the reason why you started in this work to begin with. Yeah, that's why I really wanted to give you both a shout out and a note of appreciation because it truly impacted, not just how I went about that day, but how I've proceeded to think about my own work. [00:11:22] Maren Deepwell: Marcela, how about you? I'm wondering how does that kind of align with your own practice? Because I imagine, in your role you must be so busy and probably doesn't leave a huge amount of kind of time for small moments like that. [00:11:35] Marcela Morales: Yeah, I was just gonna agree with what everything that Amanda was saying because I think that gratitude plays such an important role in all the work that we do. It's amazing how just a small note of gratitude can take you such a long way. And in our case, working with a small staff, which is another element that we have in our working environments and people so excited about the work that they're doing. So we have a wonderful example here, my colleague Alan, that he's always super excited about the work that he's doing, but then we realize that we get overworked, because we want to be involved in everything. So how to find a way to balance those two. To always feel like you're valued with the work that you do, even when you sometimes have to spread yourself a little too thin, making sure that doesn't happen. Balancing Work and Self-Care --- [00:12:26] Marcela Morales: And the other element that we always try to take into account is a self-care, reminding everybody to make sure that you take care of yourself. Because we usually, at least, us in OE Global, which we are a very small staff, we want to get involved ourselves in everything. And then because we are in an online environment, it's very easy to work over regular working hours. So you see people, I see sometimes Alan or also that we work in different time zones, that I know that I'm gonna be finding somebody, even if I'm up at 1:00 AM there's somebody at the other side of the world that will respond to my emails. So reminding myself and everybody in our team to make sure that you take care of yourself and have this balance between the work environment and your personal life and taking care of yourself. And that also puts you in a better space where you can acknowledge the people that you work with. I think so. And I see Alan nodding because we have our cameras on, because he won't let me lie on that one. And he's, one of the, people that fit in this exact description, right Alan? [00:13:39] Alan Levine: Yeah, I, was thinking about the times I just happen to look in Slack and I see your light on and I know you're on. And, you're probably seeing my light on, which is funny. We send signals sometimes that we don't realize- with the emails that we send. And it's, not a judgment, it's just we, choose that. First of all, I wanna sign up for Maren's course, but, that's another topic. And, it, I was thinking it's not like there's-- there's things that we can do and we can talk about. I, have a friend, I won't name this person, but they are like, they're top shelf speaker and they're very busy and all over many places. Every now and then I get an email and it's just got a curious link because they know it'll be something with geology related 'cause they know that's my background or because I lived in Arizona. I'll get the story about weird things happening in Arizona. And-- and the other one is a friend who just periodically calls me on the phone spontaneously, which I love. And I never think to do that. And-- and I'm sure Maren has like lots of suggestion of things that we can do, but I think the first part, that I think Amanda was getting to, is just making that some of our habit, to even stop the mad rush-- to think about doing those things. [00:15:01] Amanda Coolidge: Yeah, I kind of wanna pick up a little bit on what Marcela was saying there about the self-care and, also noting it-- like if it's something that you, sort of prescribe, to your organization is, no, don't be working that long or take care of yourself. There's a real intentionality required as a leader to also practice that. And if it's something as simple as-- if something, for example, I just can't get out of my head or I'm really focused on something and it might be a Saturday, but I just need to get it out of my head because I really wanna spend time with my son. I will jot it down an email and then do the schedule send so that it goes to the folks at a working time that is more appropriate for work- related. But I do think, it's also the intentionality of not just self-care, but it's the intentionality, negotiation, and then also joy. And something-- something joyful that's been happening at our organization, that you would not consider joyful at all, but I love it. We have a Health and Workplace Safety Committee, and the reason that we have this is because our province requires that every organization has a health and safety committee at their in-- at wherever they are. Really a lot of it is related to, if we get the big earthquake in BC what is it we need to do? So there's been these call outs for people to join the Health and Safety Committee, and there's probably about three people who have really signed up for it out of an organization of 30. But in order to get people to pay attention to the message that they need to have, they have been creating videos and they create these videos that are absolutely hilarious. But they have such joy to them and they're very quick. They're like 10 seconds, 15 seconds long, and it has brought such joy, not only to myself, but to our entire organization. And everybody wants to know like, when is the next health and safety video coming out? I can't wait to see it. But it's something about reminding ourselves that the message doesn't have to come across in some sort of operational process oriented way. There are ways to get your message out to staff or to the public that can be joyful. And I wonder if Marcela or Maren, if you've had experiences with that as well. [00:17:30] Maren Deepwell: I also wanted to jump in because I think there is an interesting, AI element to, to all of this, I think. Because one of the unfortunate consequences, only one of the many, of AI and education is the kind of speeding up of a lot of processes. It's meant to make you more efficient. And, I- I am yet to find the AI bot that will help make me more efficient. I am hopeful that I will finally have a useful application at some point. But I think the cadence of the work that we're doing is meant to always speed up. Now you don't need to go through a meeting, you just need to have the summary of the meeting notes. You don't really need to read a book. It's just a bullet point. And I think that's --that particularly I think as open practitioners and open leaders, we really need to walk the walk of showing the opposite of that. Because, really thoughtful leadership isn't about having a summary of a report that makes you ever more efficient. Now that isn't going to improve the quality of leadership in my mind. And I've been really thinking about how we can articulate something around the upside of not being ever more productive, particularly in a digital way, and how we can say, that, certain things just take certain amounts of time. And that investing the time in the processes and in the people, like I'm sure what Amanda is describing, in those joyful little videos, could just be a bullet point, if you got AI to summarize the points, but would they be as effective? I don't think so. I think there is something around the-- I've been thinking, I've been creating walking OERs so you can go for a walk and listen to. It's really openly available recording, like as a reflective practice or as a leadership practice. And it's been making me think a lot about, how long do you really need to do certain things. So I think that's probably going off slightly off the deep end, but I think it really connects with those joyful little health and safety videos. To me, having a half an hour walk, even if it's just for me, for myself, can be much more productive than reading summarized reports. So I've been thinking a lot about that sort of reclaiming of pace and cadence. Marcela, I know that you were looking like you were just about to jump in there as well, so I'm gonna, be quiet and let you talk as well. [00:19:56] Marcela Morales: Thank you. Thank you for that. I absolutely agree of-- of how sometimes we think that we need to rush more than we really do. So giving yourself enough time to get things done as opposed to, I need to do everything immediately. I think that on the long run, giving yourself enough time to think things through. And maybe I love the idea of having a walk and really think about it. That's another thing that we also try to encourage. We spend so much time in front of the computers that anything that you can do away from it, we should definitely encourage. And when you give a little bit more thought of the things that you're doing, it will be a better outcome. You will get it right the first time as opposed to having to do it multiple times. So I totally 100% support that. Another activity that I wanted to connect between the things that we're saying is the self-care that we already said and also the appreciation of our team that we get, we dive into the topics of work very quickly. So just like the nugget of joy that you were describing, Amanda. Sometimes we dive into the meeting notes and say, this is what we're doing. So we do really try sometimes to give it some pause and say, "What's going in your life? Is there anything exciting that you want to share with us" before we dive into the online meetings that we all are involved in. And I find, I, I just love that practice. We don't always have the time to do that, but whenever we do, everybody gets excited about sharing maybe a picture. And I will, pinpoint my colleague Alan again, because he has a wonderful place and he shares the vegetables that he's gonna be growing in summer. Or another colleague of ours is sharing the book that they're reading-- little snippets of their lives that will allow us to connect with them, a little bit more deeper that-- in an online environment, sometimes it's difficult to find those spaces of conversation that goes beyond the meeting notes. So also very intentionally trying to create those spaces where we can connect, at least in-- in dialogue, things that we have in common. In some instances we say, oh, I'm reading exactly the same book that you're reading. So it's very interesting to find those little small connections that go beyond the agenda that we usually have put together for us. [00:22:16] Amanda Coolidge: I love that, Marcela because it makes me think also too, just when we're talking about the efficiency of work and that need to be productive. To me, some of the best-- the best work that's come out of the work that I've done is the relationships that I've built, and that is not an efficient process. Relationships take time. And it's not something that an AI is gonna take over for me. Because to me -- sometimes at conferences I'll meet people and I won't necessarily know who they work for or what they do, but I could tell you what their 12-year-old did and how they did in the basketball tournament, and I could tell you what their favorite food is. But when you say, oh, did you meet, Shira from MIT, I'll be like, no, I don't know who that is. And then they'll explain and I'm like, oh yeah, I do know, she loves this. And so I think there is something there about-- about that relationship building. And I think that's something that Alan, you also do really well is that connection but so authentically, where you're very interested in people's stories. And I think that's another real nugget of slowing down. [00:23:32] Alan Levine: I was also remembering, talking about the-- how we get-- I feel like we have to do everything and take care of everything we set up. When I was so new, like my first job at the Maricopa Community Colleges, the woman who hired me, Naomi Story, she made my career, but she gave me some early great advice that I keep forgetting and I go back to. She told me, "Alan, you can always buy time." When you feel like someone just has a deadline or you promise something, it's so easy to say to them, "Look, I'm really sorry. it's just gonna take me a few more days." And I find myself going back to that a lot and it's usually true because, I don't like to let people down. And when I tell people when I will do something. And I'm late on doing everything! And when you just say to it, everybody's like, "no big deal." I can't tell you too many times where someone scolded me, because I was late to edit a podcast or to schedule a meeting. But we feel like we don't wanna let people down. And, I know that's a personality thing, and, I'll put that out there. And also, I, also wanna say this because of, Maren's work with remote working, I think a lot about how far Remo removed we end up being-- not only because we work remotely from the people that we're trying to have the greatest impact. And that always happened early because I worked in a central office of a large system. I worked with faculty who worked with students and I was one step beyond. And then when you go to an organization, it's like you work with the people who work with the people who work with the people who work with students. And then all of a sudden it's like you're miles away. Even from our colleagues. We create this closeness, but like this remoteness, sometimes it gets, I don't know, I don't know what to say about it. It just feels-- it's just like we do the best we can. But I feel like sometimes we miss some things. I didn't even get a question in there. But I was just thinking about the distance we have even though we're able to connect so much. [00:25:45] Marcela Morales: Yeah. I really like, that because when I read the title of this conversation, which was shared with me by Alan, of rediscovering the joy in the small things, in this environment, that's exactly what my-- where my mind went, Alan, okay. So we get so entangled in the administrative part of things and trying to get things working and everything, be sent out the day that we said, and then all the challenges that we all know about. And then when I try to reconnect to that small things that really bring me joy in the work that we do, is that trying to find the connection with those people that you just described, Alan. So who is the groups that we're impacting? So I do try to find myself like this small group or small community that I know that we have been connecting with and that it has created an impact the work that we do. And it always brings me back to center and say, yes, the work that we are doing is good and all this administrative thing that we have to do well, this part of the job, but you'll just get it done. But at the end of the day, the thing that really gets us going and keeps us going is those little small things that you know are part of the work that we do. And at the end of the day, it's about the people. And going back to what Amanda was saying, I don't mind, maybe I don't remember the institution that they came from or exactly where they are, but I do remember their story. And those to me are exactly the things that give me joy in the work that we do. So the connection of the end user is very important to always go back to that and always go back to that, which of course we need to do everything else in order to get that. So it's just like an injection of little pieces that we always need to be working with and juggling them all the time. [00:27:35] Maren Deepwell: I love all the heart emojis-- that I know this is a podcast-- but I just wanted to mention them because throughout this whole conversation, lots of us in the room here have been using lots of emoji to express gratitude and joy and alignment, and it's been really nice. So if you're listening to this, just imagine lots of little hearts flowing all around your audio airwaves. But I guess like in my work at the moment, one of the reasons why I love the work that I do now is that I get to work one-to-one with people much more than I used to be when I was running an organization where I cared very deeply about the people I was working with. But I didn't get to spend as much quality one-to-one time with them, and I do think-- Amanda earlier said that it takes a lot of intentionality to build relationships, to be a good leader and to show care and to show engagement. And I think that is something that is very hard to articulate, particularly a higher education or in education generally now. And I work with so many, institutions where they see each other every day on Zoom, on Teams or wherever, and the meetings are 60 minutes. They get hardly have a bathroom break. Then there is another meeting for another 60 minutes, then they're going to a conference, then there's a deadline, then there's a funding proposal, and it's just an endless drive to do ever more. And I think that is something where it's very difficult to articulate value in-- to senior stakeholders to communities to say, "Actually, you know what, we're gonna have less meetings." We're gonna do less of this because we value building these connections and we're not gonna save it up for one conference a year or every two years where we see each other to have those conversations. Because I think that's where burnout lies and all of us have very firsthand experience of what it feels like when we can never meet anybody in the pandemic years. And that led to so much burnout across so many different sectors where people just can't carry on. And I think that's where the healthy and sustainability part really has to kick in. We have to help people find ways of connecting and doing work that's important, but in a way that is sustainable for them and their families and their broader life. And I think that's quite an ethical dilemma, I think, to try and, make that, work. So I think Alan is always inspiring me with that because I think you, Alan, are someone who talks the talk a lot, and you remind people of that all the time and you're like, "Actually community is important." Community building is important. You have to do the work. There isn't a ready made solution sitting somewhere, either online or somewhere else. It's not ready made. It's a process. It's a practice. That was your cue, Alan, to come in and talk about community. [00:30:28] Alan Levine: I got it. I got it. I'm just working on my timing. I have to admit, I, have some secret weapons. If I have a chance to respond, especially in social media, I always like to try to find something I can sprinkle in that I know the person. So some of it, and it won't work for everybody, but I have my photos and I might like wonder when did Amanda I meet and so I can just look in my flickr photos and I'll find, "Oh yeah, we were at that Open Ed Conference." that might be something. My friend Brian Lamb said something just very general, like he just gave me some encouragement for something negative I might have said. And I just started thinking about is, you know what I really like to do is to meet up with Brian and go in that favorite place in Guadalajara that we went to for our tacos. And I couldn't remember where it was. And so I Google things and it's oh yeah, Tacos La Choza and it gives me the address so I can use the address. So I, cheat sometimes. I look things up, whether it's in my photos or my email. I actually even have an archive of all my tweets, so I can just search on the text sometimes and find out when something happened. We talked about the timeline, Maren, about how the social media things actually create a timeline we can put to use. But, usually I just try to think of something I can say if I know the person and if I don't know the person, I don't presume it, but I, might just try to say. Something that might elicit a response that lets me know them a little bit better. And that's the kind of fun thing about-- 'cause I've given up on the big social media space and spent most of my time in the little one. And like meeting new people and making the new contacts is the most interesting part. And also, I'm an introvert. I, like, like being social just drains outta me. out [00:32:25] Amanda Coolidge: That was news to me. When you mentioned that on Maren's podcast, I was like, oh, that's interesting for somebody-- I get it. Actually just as a side note, I think in the pandemic, I became like an extroverted introvert. I, don't know, I feel like my world's blended and I started to really identify with oh, "I'm actually okay to hang out with myself" and enjoyed that recharge time. But something else you were-- just thinking about this relationship building and the small joys. And I'll speak for myself. Leading an organization is wonderful in many ways, and it also is incredibly challenging in a hundred thousand other ways. And sometimes the challenges outweigh the joy. And there's times when I think, "Wow, did I really sign up for this?" Is this really where I was thinking this was gonna go? But there's something about, especially during times of struggle so either within an organization. Or if we're talking about nationally or internationally, right now, being in post-secondary education or higher education, there's a lot of challenges. And we're talking not just in North America, but globally. And as a result of that, it makes me think how important our internal organizational connections are and our relationships internally, because it also establishes a sense of trust within your organization and a trust where somebody can say to you, "I made the mistake of watching the news this morning and I just can't move on today." I just need to go for that walk or I need to just shut down for a couple of hours. And I think that's something that's really powerful to be able to do that, and to do that. Rebuilding Trust and Authentic Leadership --- [00:34:26] Amanda Coolidge: I see Manisha [in the chat] has a question asking us, "How do you rebuild trust?" And that's really hard. I've had to do that in the past, and a lot of it to be honest was continued relationship building, continued meetings and if I couldn't be in person with that particular person, I would make sure I was doing remote with camera on and really establishing a connection. So sometimes it was personal questions, first, personal reflections, just curious how they're doing, and really offering support about how I could be there for them for support. And letting them know that either BCcampus as an organization or myself as the leader of the organization was here to support them in whatever way and hopefully that continues to build trust. But I also don't think rebuilding trust is like, again, it's not the nine-- it's not the efficient system. It's like a long game. yeah. I'll pass it on to somebody else here. Marcela or Maren or Alan? [00:35:31] Marcela Morales: Yeah, happy to jump in and just acknowledging Alan's comment that he had a 9-year-old teach you how to ice skate-- and yeah, "baby steps." I think that's beautiful. in our case, I do have to say that we are very lucky to be co-leading. And this is something that I think that where you were saying, Amanda, I think that this position as the leader of an organization can become a lonely space most likely. And having the opportunity to share that space with my colleague, Igot Lesko, it makes a huge difference. And knowing that there's somebody there always, that has your back and somebody that you have to bounce ideas and having the responsibility be shared, it's, it's a blessing, I have to say. It has been wonderful to have that opportunity. And also, as you were saying, having this connection with the team. Again, we're such a small team that we always try to have this open communication with the group as a group environment and also in individual spaces. And we don't have everything figured out. And that's something that the team knows that we are constantly all, as a collective, assume that we're responsible for the organization. So it's not only the leaders responsible for the organization, but all of us. And having this common interest in making sure that we are all on the same page. In our case, it's very interesting that many of our members, of the staff members together with Igor and I, we have not met in person many times. So I can count the times that we have been in the same room in per in person with the with the fingers of my hands, in many cases. So it's amazing that we have been able to create these relationships only online. And whenever we have the opportunity to be in the same room, it's like the opposite, like a different way of connecting. Like I'm so used to seeing you in your little box. And having the very few opportunities to share a space in person, it just magnifies the relationship. So we have had this opportunity of creating the relationship that we have with staff, mainly online and have them be amplified in person. So I think it's a very unique situation. I'm sure that some of our listeners also have that be the case because of the online work environment that we're in now. But I think that even if it's online or in person, the creating the connection with the team. Even, as you were saying, Amanda, being online with the cameras on, that's the way that we have been connecting. And whenever you have the opportunity to give them a hug in person, it's twice as beautiful and I'll pass it to you, Maren or Alan, sorry. [00:38:22] Alan Levine: Oh, oh, I just was like-- Marcela immediately responds and it's not like I have that expectation. But the degree to which she responds is just so reassuring. And sometimes it's just like a, little FYI sort of thing. and I don't know, I've been in work situations where you communicate with a colleague or especially a director and you don't get anything and you're left wondering. And I know that's something that everybody takes care to and that puts a huge load to be able to do that. You probably create your own sort of parameters for that. The other thing is it's, so easy to get caught up in the things and, like I get frustrated and sometimes I get really critical. And I just try not to wrap that into everybody I work with, does so much. And it's not like I wanna start building any kind of hardened judgements or, ways about my, colleagues or even the people that we interact with. So everybody that you work with, even if you disagree or they aren't doing what you think they can do, or-- they can. And, so it's just a matter of sometimes having to re change my own approach, not having expectations of what someone else should, or could do. And that's hard. [00:39:36] Maren Deepwell: I am going to come in something different. But I think also, Alan, your point just made me think. We also sometimes I think, need to find balance outside of work. I think particularly in Open education, there's so many of us who really care about our work. And it's so urgent. There are so many important issues. And right now, there's no shortage of things to, to worry about and care about. And sometimes I work with leaders and they invest so much of themselves into work. Work is not meant to be all of life. We don't live to work. We do other things as well. And I think it's hard when you really care about something in a very authentic way to find that balance between what is work meant to do and where do your boundaries lie for yourself. I guess that aligns with my other point, Marcela, that I wanted to make in response to what you said, just around values and being honest and authentic and sticking to those commitments. Because people can tell when you're bullshitting them and when you're saying, "Oh, our organization is all equitable" and whatever else. And in reality that's not the case. People know that and they can tell very easily. And so I think, as a leader, you can't always disclose and give people the full picture. That might not be appropriate, but I think being honest up to the point where you can be and sticking to the commitments that you make is a really strong way to building trust. And I think also that's clear boundaries of what you have control over and what's beyond your control, what you can't make happen. [00:41:18] Amanda Coolidge: I think sometimes too during challenging times or just uncertain times, which you're speaking to, Maren, is it's almost just like an acknowledgement that times are tough, that the staff just wanna hear and you writing them and you're like, I know this is a really difficult time right now and here's what I'm seeing, where the good work is. It's also back to that recognition piece, right? So the-- that acknowledgement that there is a problem, identifying what it is that, that people are working towards in a good way. Just being trans-- like you said, being transparent of where's your sphere of influence, like what's, in your control, and then what's out of your control? I think that's like a-- I'm picturing, as if I've seen something like that, maybe in like cognitive behavioral therapy or something where it's like the different circles. Now I'm probably revealing too much about myself. [00:42:13] Alan Levine: Never too much Amanda. Finding Joy in Small Things --- [00:42:16] Alan Levine: I wonder, maybe not to say we have to, close, but just thinking about the small things like-- anybody willing to share something new that's a small thing that-- that is-- that fits that "small thing" category of the bits of joy. And, I'll just throw one out there because it, it's always where the place around me. My wife and I are trying to restore what was farmed property and to be like a wildlife landscape. And for the first couple years, repeatedly, we had a family of foxes. We could see out our window who had pups every year. We named them. And then the last couple years we haven't seen 'em. And so we have a resident fox back-- his or her name is "Jack" and also, I've already told a couple times, like Sunday we are sitting here looking out our window where I'm right now.. We heard the Canadian geese. It's pretty early and, we just, so they're like, how do they know when to come back? Because they're far away. And, like to know that animals get these signals, and an understanding of the world that we don't understand, that kind of gives me hope. [00:43:32] Amanda Coolidge: I love that. Mine is not about the natural world. Mine is about a fake world. But what is bringing me joy right now is I play this video game that I cannot stop talking about. It's called Star Dew Valley. And basically I build a farm and I have to be in my community, in my little pretend community. I have to take care of my house, I have to take care of my farm, but I also have to help the [community] center. So I play Star Dew Valley in the evenings just to relax. But. in terms of bringing me joy, it, my son's always like, "How's the corn going, mom?" Like, where are you at? And then with work, I have a whole bunch of people in our office who also play, and it's been an incredible connect opportunity with other people who I might not normally get to meet with or chat with. So sometimes we do-- I'll have an impromptu lunchtime Star Dew Valley chat, where we get in and just talk about where we are with our farms or our houses. So I love it. [00:44:35] Alan Levine: I will interject because, someone you know very well, Gardner Campbell, we talk every now and then he's into this headset game. it's some kind of mini golf thing, and he's been on me for months to play this game and he raves about it and, I just love his energy for it, even if it's not thing. [00:44:53] Amanda Coolidge: Well, that's the thing is I, am not a gamer. I did not-- I grew up playing Nintendo. I saved the princess. It's like my claim to fame in Mario Brothers. I just love that. But when it comes to this game of Star Dew Valley, I don't know what it is, and the graphics are very old school like we're not talking high-end graphics. It's basically like- think Minecraft type esque. But I can talk about it all day because I just love it. [00:45:20] Maren Deepwell: That's obsession, Amanda and I've taken my plant obsession a slightly more hand, hands-on way and made little models of flower shops that I've got on my bookshelves. But there's a few listening in-- I'm just showing them all an actual little model that I've taken off the shelf. But for me it's like a really nice way of getting away from the screen, having something to do with my hands. I put my art and sculpture degrees to good use here and, yeah, it's a really relaxing way. And Amanda as well, I think I'm finding this a really great talking point with people when I'm chatting with them, but it's also something non-digital that I'm really enjoying. [00:45:58] Marcela Morales: I love that. That's beautiful. And yeah, I much appreciate anything that has to do with working with your hands. My background is in architecture, so anything that has to do with building, even if it's in real things, not real things as your world, Amanda, I'm just, I love that., For me right now, it's a very small thing, but makes me really happy. So I am-- I usually-- I am based currently in Austin, Texas, but right now I'm in Mexico. And one of the things that really give me pleasure these past couple of weeks that I've been here is having tortillas. So real authentic corn tortillas made by hand, like the ones that you had in Guadalajara,Alan. There's no comparison to that. I just love it. And the other thing that has been giving me a lot of pleasure and joy this week is reconnecting with our community through Open Education Week. So every year that we start building this event-- online event, and it takes a lot of effort, nobody knows it more than Alan, is just when we dive into the actual week and we see so many events being, underway and knowing how much work is being done outside our usual circle. And knowing how we can create these big bridges or small threads of connections with the community outside of our usual circle, it is just amazing. I just love it. And, so this has been a very high point of this week for me. [00:47:30] Alan Levine: I'm really disappointed in Zoom. I can't react with a taco. [00:47:35] Marcela Morales: Oh, [00:47:37] Alan Levine: I can get it in the chat. I can't make a taco come on the screen [00:47:41] Marcela Morales: I know it's a small thing, but it makes me so happy. Oh, yeah. [00:47:46] Alan Levine: It is. Conclusion and Invitation to Engage --- [00:47:48] Alan Levine: I just thank you all so much. This has been great, and I just crave more of this when we can. And thank you for everything that all of you do. [00:47:58] Amanda Coolidge: I. Yeah. Thank you, Alan. Thanks for bringing us together. It was wonderful. And thanks to the active listeners here on the podcast in person and otherwise, great to have you here. [00:48:12] Alan Levine: Thank you Shira, Manisha, and Beck for being in the studio with us. And I'm not gonna try to promise when I might get this thing edited, but I'm gonna get the podcast machine out and because it's fun to do, actually. That's a small thing for me that's fun to do is to edit. And, I, take too much time. I think that's my problem. 'cause I, I just enjoy listening to it. [00:48:33] Marcela Morales: Thank all big pleasure being here with you. [00:48:36] Alan Levine: Take care. [00:48:37] Marcela Morales: Enjoy the rest of the week. [00:48:39] Alan Levine: Thank you for listening to the special episode of OE Global Voices, the conversational style podcast from Open Education Global. This was recorded as a live event during Open Education Week in March, 2025. We've always closed our podcast with an invitation to engage in follow up discussions in our OEG Connect community at connect.oeglobal.org As a new feature, we're trying to add questions, provocations, or maybe even calls for action about the topics we discussed in what we're calling an "Aftercast". It's an experiment. So experiment along with us. With what you have heard in this episode from Amanda, Maren and Marcela, what are some of the "small things" that you find effective to get outta the focus on productivity and time crunches? What are the ways your colleagues achieve more relationship building through actions like the BC Campus Health and Safety Committee videos, that Amanda shared, or the reflective walks that Maren describes, or the life outside work sharing that Marcela talked about carving time out for in our OE Global staff meetings, We'd all like to hear more from you, and OEG Connect is the place to be part of the Aftercast. Each episode of OE Global Voices features a different musical intro track selected from the Free Music Archive. For today's show, we selected a track called "Small Wonder" by Steve Combs, and it's licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution license. You can find this episode at our website, voices.oeglobal.org, and you can be part of the Aftercast in OEG Connect or wherever you interact with us in social media. If you're listening and would like to share your open education work or suggest a future guest, please let us know via our website or by email to voices@oeglobal.org, and we look forward to having you be part of our next episode. Stay tuned.