OEGlobal Voices 87: OEAward Winner Terry Greene === Intro Music and Highlight Quote --- [00:00:06] Terry Greene: I think just being a host, seriously, being prepared, like you prepared this document we're looking at to know what's coming a lot of people are quite nervous if they've never done it before, understandably. [00:00:19] But you can really lower the heat on that by saying, whatever you say, it's not getting released unless you want it to. You get full veto power. Let's relax. I'm only gonna ask you questions that you know the answers to, so let's just have a fun little conversation. And if you don't even wanna release it at all, we don't have to. [00:00:37] And that makes a more kind of fun conversation I think. Welcome to the Podcast --- [00:00:43] Alan Levine: Hello and welcome to Get Air. It's the Open Pedagogy Podcast, and I'm your host, not Terry Greene, but Alan Levine. And I'm here to turn the tables on Terry and interview him on Gettin' Air. [00:00:56] Terry Greene: Whoa. Wait, No. Flipping the Script: Alan Interviews Terry --- [00:01:07] Terry Greene: It's time for a new episode of OE Global Voices, the podcast we produce here at Open Education Global. Each episode we share with you conversation style people, practices and ideas from open educators from around the world. I am your humble host, editor, and button clicker, not Alan Levine, but Terry Greene. [00:01:17] Wait a minute. I'm not that humble, am I? [00:01:20] Alan Levine: Not at all 'cause you're an award winner. Hold the bus. Are we getting really too meta here, Terry? We've known each other for so long and we actually did this flip podcast- I had to go back and look back in 2022 and-- [00:01:32] Terry Greene: Yeah, [00:01:33] Alan Levine: That was a lot of fun. And, Gettin' Air. We're gonna talk about Gettin' Air. Terry and I have known each other for so long, we don't remember, and we'll probably have way too many inside jokes, but here we are. Terry's Background and Achievements --- [00:01:44] Alan Levine: It's Monday, June 16th, and we're gonna record a conversation with Terry, as a follow up to last year, he got recognized with our fancy Open Education awards for excellence in the Wildcard category for his podcast Gettin' air. [00:01:57] If you haven't heard Gettin' Air, you're missing out. And I'll plug that and what you do on Gettin' Air, Terry is, what I tried to copy here for OE Global Voices. [00:02:08] Terry Greene: That's pretty cool because your work on, like the radio stuff for DS106 is what got me thinking about it in the first place. So it's, it works both ways, so thank you. [00:02:20] Alan Levine: It was way back in September of last year that we announced Terry as one of these winners. And we, decided to wait deliberately, for a good reason. And mainly now we're doing some of these podcasts because we've just opened nominations for the 2025 awards. And hearing from Terry is gonna inspire many more people to go out there and nominate, and also give him a chance to do some more stuff that, that he can talk about. [00:02:45] Really what we wanna do is just let you meet and get to know some of the people who've been recognized before. And, again, we wanna inspire you to get out there and nominate. Podcasting Journey and Inspirations --- [00:02:55] Alan Levine: So we got podcasting and podcasters talking about podcasting. [00:02:59] Hello and welcome, good friend Terry. [00:03:02] Terry Greene: Thank you so much for having me again. I do like a good excuse to chat with you, Alan. [00:03:06] Alan Levine: All right, so let me know. I know where you are and I always ask-- when you ask, and you know this, you people do your intros, they'll say, I'm Terry Greene. I'm in Petersburg, Ontario, and I work for Trent University. They give the map location. I also like, because it's podcast and people can't see where you are, if you can describe what is your physical location. [00:03:30] Terry Greene: Sure. So I am in Peterborough, Ontario, Canada. It's also known as Nogojiwanong, which is the, Mississauga Anishinaabeg original name for the area. I, believe it's something like "where the waters meet". There's a couple of lakes and rivers around here, some trees and rocks too. [00:03:48] It's pretty awesome and physically for you, you can actually see me. It's not as blurry as it looks here. Anyway, I'm down in my basement. It's nice and cool down here. I've got some pretty awesome wood paneling all around me that Jim Groom is very jealous of, that he noticed when he was on a call with me once. And yeah, I got a lot of vinyl here, got my record player, got some albums, a lot of classic old school, hip hop stuff all around me so I can hit the play button on that whenever I want to get some fresh beats. [00:04:25] Alan Levine: Fresh beats. And you get regularly to do some work at home and also when you're not on campus. How does that work out now? [00:04:33] Terry Greene: We can work remotely like 95% of the time. I go in tomorrow for meetings, but, yeah, which is so great. Mostly our work is so flexible, like we build online courses, we should be able to work online. Makes perfect sense. It is beautiful campus, so it draws me there just for that reason often at Trent in Peterborough. [00:04:57] And, so I get to work remotely, which is awesome for pick up and drop off the kids at school, which is like two blocks away. Life in Banff and Early Education --- [00:05:06] Alan Levine: And, where did Terry come into the world? Where did you live as a kid, and what did you think of school when you were like in elementary school? What kinda student were you? [00:05:16] Terry Greene: Oh, flawless student. Yeah. Constantly getting-- I grew up in Alberta. I was in Banff until I was about 11. My dad worked for the Banff Centre, which is like a college there. It has a school of arts, a school of mountain culture, which is pretty cool. They're maybe one of their most famous things is the Banff Mountain Film Festival, which has the festival there, and then it tours all over. [00:05:43] So I would go to those all the time, those really cool movies, like short films and stuff from all over the world. But school, like, I got decent grades all through. but just I wasn't focused on being the most academic or anything. I just wanted to kinda have a good time, enjoy the mountain, like when I lived in Banff for the mountains, the sports and stuff. [00:06:13] And then we moved to Edmonton, my sport was alpine ski racing. So moving to Edmonton to the prairies from Banff was a little disappointing. but I kept doing that, so I actually missed quite a bit of school. But the motivation to continue the skiing kept me motivated to do well enough in school to keep going. [00:06:35] So that was like a good kind of counteraction on each other, if that makes sense. [00:06:40] Alan Levine: I never knew you were a skier. People know Banff, it's a big tourist town, but what's it like to be a permanent residence in a place that people come to be tourist? [00:06:49] Terry Greene: Yeah, it's, weird. I think my parents made a conscious decision to move away before my siblings and I were in our teens, because of how transient-- like it's a party happening all the time. People coming through with partying stuff like drugs. So that, I think it was probably pretty smart. [00:07:14] I would've probably had a very different life if we didn't move away from there. So good call Mom and Dad, I think. [00:07:21] Alan Levine: Parents yeah, you heard it here. Discovering Open Education --- [00:07:23] Alan Levine: We'll, jump around, but we're talking about we're about Open Education and, how did that come into your life and your work? Did the clouds part and Open Education appeared? What was the call to adventure? [00:07:40] Terry Greene: I know you are totally not setting yourself up for the credit here, but you're a part of it. through DS106, which I've already mentioned, the-- [00:07:49] Alan Levine: What is DS106? Can you explain what DS106 is? [00:07:52] Terry Greene: I can't, I don't know what it is. The DS is Digital Storytelling. It is a open learning experience about just messing around with technology stuff in order to tell stories online. [00:08:05] And so yeah, one year, I think 2015 I was meant to look up and find something to do for professional development. And I came across this and just the look of it looked like not grimy, like not polished. Like it looked "let's do some crazy things and try things out and you'll see your stuff up here". [00:08:26] That, that was neat. So it wasn't about open education, but it was an open learning experience. It really modeled so many open things like the Assignment Bank, the Daily Create, the sharing your work, the blogging, the radio. just doing things in the open, it opened more eyes than I have, I think, and then led me towards learning about what is CC licensing, what is open education? What can, how can I use this kind of approach in my work? It was endlessly inspiring. [00:09:00] Alan Levine: Now it's your life. The Art of Podcasting --- [00:09:07] Alan Levine: And, so let's talk about podcasting. Do you remember listening to podcasts? What was your draw to do your own podcast? [00:09:11] Terry Greene: So I got pulled into it, by Stephen Hurley, who started Voice Ed Radio Canada. And he was a K 12 educator who was just naturally an open educator, loved sharing, loved interviewing people. Like, you and I both love to do, just chatting with people and picking their brain and doing it in a space where other people could hear. [00:09:34] This was after I did DS106, and I think because of my blogging and just sharing silly ideas prompted by silly prompts and fun prompts and cool stuff, he invited me to be a guest when he was starting voice at radio. He said "I wanna have my own kind of stable of podcasts here. Are you interested?" [00:09:53] And so he showed me the ropes, on how to do it, set things up. I don't know how many people he is done that for like Heather Ross with The Better Me Podcast and probably a dozens of others, brought me into it. [00:10:09] Alan Levine: And serendipity, like the hour before I was doing another podcast recording with Heather and some colleagues here in Saskatchewan. [00:10:17] If I count right, I just started listening to episode 177 with Dave Cormier again, but Dave is, always worth listening to. It's quite a span, and , I scrolled all the way back and I found your first episode was with Jenni Hayman. [00:10:33] Can you talk about what did you learn between 1 and 177? [00:10:40] Terry Greene: I would recommend listening to only Jenni on the very first episode, 'cause I Stephen was there in the background, nudging me along. I never wanna listen to that again. I'm afraid of what it sounds like. But yeah, along the way, the great part is you interview these great people and you learn from them about what they do. [00:10:58] But what I've learned about podcasting is just, it's fun to be prepared with some kind of deep cuts. I think it was Brian Lamb who compared it to Nardwuar the "Human Serviette" who is a very famous Canadian interviewer, very eccentric, [00:11:18] Alan Levine: Yeah. [00:11:19] Terry Greene: Always has a question about someone's childhood nickname or something that just blows them away. That kind of stuff is just the sauce that makes it fun. [00:11:29] I'm not  Nardwuar, but, I love it and I wanna emulate that a bit. I think just being a host, seriously, being prepared, like you prepared this document we're looking at to know what's coming a lot of people are quite nervous if they've never done it before, understandably. [00:11:48] But you can really lower the heat on that by saying, whatever you say, it's not getting released unless you want it to. You get full veto power. Let's relax. I'm only gonna ask you questions that you know the answers to, so let's just have a fun little conversation. And if you don't even wanna release it at all, we don't have to. [00:12:06] And that makes a more kind of fun conversation I think. [00:12:09] Alan Levine: When you listen to podcasts, what appeals to you? It's obvious that probably folds into what you do, but how do podcasts work for you as a listener? [00:12:19] Terry Greene: I don't know the best answer here, but I pick a few that I know I like, Bonni Stachowiak Teaching in Higher Ed. She must be at 500 or 600 episodes now. So that is probably a huge chunk of what I do listen to 'cause there's so many and you can revisit and search by theme. Don't look at her podcast site and compare it to mine, please. It's so, good. [00:12:48] I think what I do is just network from there, " who is she talking to?" If they mentioned other podcasts, I'll check that out and just dabble in that direction. [00:13:01] And just based on interest, I listen to lots of Oilers podcasts right now because -- hopefully you're not hearing this and it's over and they've lost the Stanley Cup. Hopefully you're listening to this and the  Oilers have won the Stanley Cup, when this gets released. But right now they're in the midst of the final, and so I'm listening to a lot of that. [00:13:19] But yeah, the ones I like are ones that are conversational and people just informally having fun with each other. [00:13:28] Alan Levine: I know you do homework and, I think you you ask friends of your guests. Is that how it works? [00:13:35] Terry Greene: Often. [00:13:35] Alan Levine: Yeah. Do you ever not find something that you can dig into or do you have to just do some web searching? [00:13:43] Terry Greene: The kind of funnest thing, I think -- I don't wanna sound like a brag-- but I what I find fun is, especially if they're like a PhD, look up what they did in their PhD and then just offhandedly ask, oh, hey, do you know anything about______ and they're like, yes I do. I know the most in the world about that. And then let them share that kind of stuff. [00:14:05] If it's someone I don't know and I don't really know who they know, I just focus on a product that I've been asked to interview someone about a book that's coming out. We'll base it around the book and, I usually feel a little more nervous about those ones actually, 'cause there's no connection yet. [00:14:25] But usually by the end of the conversation, you feel more natural and more like you're becoming friends kind of thing. [00:14:33] Alan Levine: And, obviously, the Dave Cormiers, the Audrey Waters. How do you go about getting the mix? Because you also include a lot of people who aren't as, quote unquote well known, not that there's a ladder? How do you go about finding unique guests, that you're interested in doing and that you think your audience would want to hear? [00:14:56] Terry Greene: I find at this point I get those suggested to me, I'm lucky that way, I don't have to search too hard. Often, yeah, it'll just be seeing them post on now it's Bluesky or LinkedIn even, post something interesting. And I reach out. Sometimes I'm lucky and they've heard of it and are like, "yeah, cool." [00:15:21] Sometimes I'm like, holy crap, how have I not asked them yet? I don't, 'cause I know them and I, just haven't realized, wow, that's a great pick. There's how many people on earth? 8 billion. [00:15:31] Alan Levine: Yeah, [00:15:32] Terry Greene: So I, don't feel so bad about not getting to everybody, but yeah, it's endless. It's easy pickings, I think sometimes.. [00:15:40] Alan Levine: I won't ask for names, but has anybody turned you down? [00:15:44] Terry Greene: Yeah. yeah. An author who wrote this really cool looking thing-- yeah, I don't want to give any names-- actually, it was probably more like a publicist was like "they don't have time for that crap," Hip Hop and Online Learning --- [00:15:55] Alan Levine: And, what's so great about hip hop? [00:16:01] Terry Greene: I think I noticed a connection or a comparison of it between the work I do as building online-- so I build online courses with subject matter experts. And what you're doing is curating different technologies and resources and putting it into a module or something, but you're building a rhythm, I think, of each module. And it I think feels like hip hop, which is also technological-- it started because they messed with how a turntable works. [00:16:36] They stopped it with their hand instead of just letting it play. And that was scratching and sampling. All that, I can see what we're doing in online learning is sampling things and we're trying to make the most out of the technology we're handed. [00:16:56] So maybe the learning management system is the turntable and we're not quite perfectly happy how it works, so we gotta put our hands on it and mess with it. [00:17:06] I see that connection and, they do it with style and art, so I, want to do that. [00:17:12] Alan Levine: You have a poster. Steez. What's Steez? [00:17:16] Terry Greene: Yeah. My Steez is a song from Gang Starr. My favorite genre of hip hop is early nineties, late eighties into nineties old school hip hop. And so Gang Starr was a key piece of that. [00:17:33] So Steez is "style and ease" doing things with style and ease. So I thought Steez based learning, and it was based around just messing with making audio books with beats. So you can take an openly licensed book with some openly licensed music, put that instrumental beat at a very low volume together and maybe you can learn with style and ease by just listening to an open book. it is fun to mess around with. [00:18:02] Alan Levine: You've done a couple of those, haven't you? [00:18:04] Terry Greene: Yeah. There's a dozen people worldwide really interested in this approach. Creating Audio Books with Style --- [00:18:10] Alan Levine: So you decide that you're gonna pick an open textbook and do you record the audio and then you, do you put the track down? or do you do some AI? [00:18:21] Terry Greene: I'm just the hack taking things and putting together, I'm not making any music or anything myself, but, so I, find some on the Free Music Archive, something instrumental, [00:18:32] Alan Levine: Yeah. [00:18:33] Terry Greene: And then I actually used, does it count as an AI? A text to speech tool, [00:18:40] Alan Levine: Yeah. [00:18:41] Terry Greene: with more kind of natural sounding than the old robot sounding stuff to put it all together. So I'm actually just producing it, [00:18:50] Alan Levine: You're mixing it. You're mixing it. What are some of the titles that you've done? Can you remember some off hand? [00:18:56] Terry Greene: Yeah. So I choose the books based on just what I want to-- it gives me an excuse to focus in and read, and ingest the content. [00:19:05] So one first one was from Terry Anderson. I think both of them have been, I think I just did two full books, both of them from Athabasca Press, How Education Works with John Dron released last year and the other one was an older book about online learning. I think it's a classic, and I feel silly that I don't remember the name of it right now. [00:19:28] And then after that, we didn't put any music underneath, but I helped Laura Czerniewicz and Catherine Cronin create the audio version of Higher Ed Education for Good, which is massive. That was cool because there's so many different approaches and so many different, like I didn't do them all I just did the ones where the authors were comfortable creating ai. [00:19:52] Alan Levine: Okay. [00:19:52] Terry Greene: And I'm not an AI enthusiast or anything, but this was a kind of a cool use of it, getting the audiobook version of that out possible. [00:20:03] Alan Levine: And so the whole book is out with audio, either spoken by the authors or look-- he's got a copy. [00:20:10] Terry Greene: Yeah. All that work got me a copy, which was awesome. I just need to find them and get them to sign it. But yeah, it's 700 million pages. Let me check-- 633! [00:20:19] Alan Levine: That's, a massive book and an impressive effort. I remember, back to hip hop, weren't you doing a podcast when Anne-Marie Scott, where you were What was it called? And, what was the angle on that podcast? [00:20:30] Terry Greene: So it was called Check the O.L. Check the O.R. was Organized Rhyme, a hip hop group from Ottawa. And so that was just a riff on that, and it was literally just me and Anne-Marie connecting with, the people behind transformative online courses, like just really great courses. [00:20:55] There was a book that helped me learn-- like in hip hop, one of the kind of five tenets is that you know the story of hip hop. What are all the best albums and how they came to be and stuff. So there's a book about the Story behind groundbreaking hip hop, and I love the book. [00:21:14] So if you wanted to learn about what made Enter the 36 Chambers from Wu-Tang, such a special album, you read that and you learn. So I wanted to do that for those courses. So Bonnie Stewart had Antigonish 2.0, DS106. The really epically interesting one was from Mod Po Modern Poetry Al Filreis. [00:21:40] Alan Levine: He's amazing. That's astounding, isn't it? Yeah. And it's still go, it's still going, right? Isn't it? Mod, yeah. [00:21:46] Terry Greene: The way he described how it was "meta- pedagogical", like Anne-Marie, who's a genius, like I was just catching up to what is going on? But Anne-Marie was like, jaw drop, like that. This was unbelievable. [00:21:58] And so I would love to, and I know it's gonna take a long time 'cause I am not that productive these days, but I want to make a book out of those stories and make more of them. [00:22:10] I would love to show how an online learning experience can elevate to something that you'll never forget. Which is what DS106 was for me. [00:22:19] Alan Levine: Yeah. I have a really hard question. I've been doing my own research and, I've been reading your Bluesky. Do you really have Tupac socks? [00:22:29] Terry Greene: I do. I've got Tupac socks came in a three pack and I thought that was a little silly. It should have been a two pack. [00:22:38] Alan Levine: And you can't even get DS106 socks, for the inside joke. [00:22:41] Podcasting is really popular, right? And what do you suggest for someone who wants to start out and be a Terry Greene or be themselves, but what's a good place to start if you get the idea to do a podcast? [00:22:55] Terry Greene: Like this is just my approach, but I don't overthink the quality of the audio. I just go by good vibes. And the vibes come from finding fun background music to put in, finding interesting stories to talk about. Think of how fun it must be, I assume for Nardwuar to track down like Kendrick Lamar's childhood friend and find out what his silly nickname was to throw back like that. [00:23:26] How fun-- that'd be so fun. So if digging and finding those fun stories to connect and make someone excited to talk to you is-- I'm assuming it's an interview style podcast. But just telling the story if, like just tell the stories you're interested in telling. [00:23:46] For me, the Gettin' Air concept just happened when that song came on. I was like, yeah, because this was when Stephen Hurley was like, "you should start one." And I wasn't sure how to do it or what it should be about. And I was like Gettin' Air, get some airtime for people to share what they do in open education. It all just connected at once. [00:24:06] Alan Levine: And did the song come first? [00:24:07] Terry Greene: Yeah. The song is what like put it all together. [00:24:10] Alan Levine: How did you find or you knew the song, right? [00:24:12] Terry Greene: Yeah. Yeah. They're from-- I don't like giving people from Calgary props, 'cause I'm Edmonton, but Chixdiggit was the band. They're from Calgary. They're a great punk band in late nineties. I think they probably still around now. So that song did it. [00:24:29] Alan Levine: Do they know how much fame you've given them by using their song on Gettin' Air? Have you heard from them? [00:24:35] Terry Greene: No, never heard from them. But when we started, Stephen Hurley, he was on like a, copyright board. And he assured us that we can use it. I'm not convinced, but I'll go with it. But I worry that I owe them money at some point, so I've got some savings ready for that. [00:25:01] But I, love you Chixdiggit, but don't hurt me. [00:25:05] Alan Levine: I did go on Bandcamp and you can buy the song for a buck. [00:25:08] Terry Greene: I bought it. I did buy it. [00:25:10] Alan Levine: But that doesn't really give you license to reuse it for a broadcast. [00:25:13] Terry Greene: No, [00:25:14] Alan Levine: Yeah. [00:25:15] Terry Greene: I've never made any money off of, Gettin' Air. I hope you're listening to that part Chixdiggit, if you're, hearing this. [00:25:23] Alan Levine: Yeah. Give a pro to Terry. Maybe you can have then on the show sometime. Maybe you can do a Gettin' Air. Yeah. Wouldn't that be wild? [00:25:29] Future Projects and Aspirations --- [00:25:29] Alan Levine: Outside of podcasting, what are some of the projects that you're doing at, Trent, that you're really excited about open education related? [00:25:41] Terry Greene: Just in general, the job is so cool 'cause you get to a couple new courses every semester. So I'm building a course non-formal community-based education. So we're talking about open education in that, and we're a po, a panel podcast for every module, stuff like that. [00:25:58] And I also just built a course about the ancient wonders of the world, the seven ancient wonders of the world. Now I know more than just the pyramids. [00:26:05] Alan Levine: Did you get to go there? Did you do field research? [00:26:07] Terry Greene: I I suggested it didn't the [00:26:10] that None of them are anywhere near Saskatchewan or Ontario. I'll [00:26:14] Alan Levine: And what in edtech are you really fired up about? I'll do the AI thermometer barometer. But anything else happening, in our field right now that you are like, "wow, I gotta get into that." [00:26:28] Terry Greene: Mostly I'm just thinking about how, wow, I wish I didn't have to get into AI. It just causes, takes my time instead of saves me time, to be honest. [00:26:36] But it makes me reevaluate how interesting the non-AI approach is, and actually reading something to get to understand what was in it. I value that more now that I know I could just pop it into AI and get a summary or something. [00:26:56] work, I guess it makes me value that work more. [00:26:58] But yeah, ed tech wise, I'm just interested in connecting stories and people through panel podcasts, which is not an innovative technology, but we the things like that into they don't, The students don't get a podcast created just for their course often, so that's pretty special I think. [00:27:22] Alan Levine: That's brilliant. And, there's rumors I've heard of that you're working on an advanced degree. When do I get to call you Dr. Terry? [00:27:32] Terry Greene: Don't hold your breath. I delayed the beginning of it, but I still fully intend to, do it. they, the program was very, what's the word? Generous in, letting me know that. When I reapply, I'll be i'll, pretty confident I'll be able to get back but so it's a interdisciplinary social research PhD at Trent. [00:27:57] I delayed it it's free, but of the cost to me is time with my family. And they're still pretty young, so I want to get all my ducks in a row and begin when I'm truly And I think if I delayed a bit, I hopefully time it to finish while hopefully my kids are maybe at Trent as well, which would be very cool. [00:28:21] But I volunteered at the convocation a few times last week and seeing all that got me like thinking, "oh, I shouldn't have delayed it." I should get back in there. But what I want to do is study what we've already talked about is how creative productions like albums and, not necessarily hip hop, but I'll probably focus on hip hop, or plays or movies or anything-- those can be brought over to producing learning experiences and make them more like art based more, maybe more deeply emotional experiences. [00:29:02] I think there's something there. It doesn't have to be-- always just not as exciting. [00:29:10] Alan Levine: I forget the host name, the song Exploder podcast, where they break down like how a song was produced, way back to where it came from and the basic tracks. [00:29:20] Terry Greene: like the sample, the [00:29:21] Alan Levine: Yeah, yeah, And so they talked to artists who have produced like commercial or well-known songs. And they go back to just, sometimes it's just where the idea came from or what some of the first tracks were. [00:29:34] And I always thought that had a great metaphor for how we develop courses. [00:29:38] 'cause [00:29:39] Terry Greene: Yeah, absolutely. That's the kind of stuff. So maybe what I wanna study has already been done, but I don't [00:29:44] Alan Levine: no no one's done it. You, still got it. Encouraging Nominations and Final Thoughts --- [00:29:48] Alan Levine: Given, again, like this is the thing I'm trying to sell, we're opening the nominations for this year's award. Sometimes I, I get the feeling people look at that and they say, oh, that's nice, but like my stuff -- i've never done 177 episodes of a podcast, or my work is not as good as the people who win. [00:30:08] Can you give me like a persuasive statement about why people in the community should consider putting forth a nomination this year? [00:30:19] Terry Greene: like It's not about creating flashy stuff, it's about creating stuff with heart or doing work that-- obviously you have heart when you're working in an open way. And everybody deserves some recognition for that. It makes me think of Kimberly Carter from last year, Open Catalyst. She's not doing flashy stuff, but she's working her ass off to get people to be aware of OER at Conestoga in in Ontario. [00:30:49] And, she's, yeah, working on policy and making sure everybody is in the know and there's connections with the students services, all that stuff. stuff. She deserved that so hard. And, I'm so glad she won that. I didn't need more gratitude for Gettin' Air, but loved it. It was so nice. [00:31:16] It reinvigorated Because I hadn't done an episode in a while when I heard about it, so it was pretty to to get that. I think the works and I don't know who nominated it yet. I'm, gonna find you though. I will find you and thank you for it. But, I am sure it does not take that long to put in a nomination. [00:31:38] You could take your time and put a lot into it, but that, I think that doing that yourself is a feel good thing 'cause you're giving someone the gratitude that they deserve. Even if they just find out about the nomination, they didn't win or anything. yeah. And you guys were so great about that last year. [00:31:57] Like you celebrate long list, the short list, the winners, all that is, because everybody should learn about-- even just convincing someone that you've done good enough work to do a nomination is like so rewarding right there, right? [00:32:12] Alan Levine: And, this year, throwing another element in, every person or project that gets nominated, we're gonna send them a digital badge and a certificate, because we know that's meaningful. But, I literally came up with this idea when I was driving and I threw it into the form is if Terry's going in and he's gonna nominate Jenni Hayman for an award, because that's such a gracious thing to do, you can check a box to say like when we notify Jenni you can let her know that it came from Terry. Or you can remain anonymous. Or the third option is, I'm nominating myself, but that's okay too. [00:32:48] But that idea about wouldn't it be wonderful when you get this notice that you were nominated for an award, that it was entered by someone else. [00:32:57] I think that's pretty compelling. [00:33:00] Terry Greene: Yeah. Yeah. Like I am extremely grateful for whoever put in the Gettin' Air one. I got one before for Liberated Learner, not me-- we did, there was a hundred people on that project. We manufactured that nomination through the awards at Trent. We wanted to put it in 'cause we were proud of that work. [00:33:25] So yeah, we self nominated. Don't feel bad about [00:33:31] Alan Levine: Nope. Self nominations are perfectly legit and we encourage that. There's nothing wrong with that. Both of them work. [00:33:38] Outside of all this work that you do when you get out of the basement there, what's something that really gives you fulfillment away from work? [00:33:46] Terry Greene: Lately. It's been jogging. [00:33:49] Alan Levine: Really? [00:33:50] Terry Greene: And like you just said, an idea came to you while driving. Do you know the, what the concept, the flow, his name is Csíksz-- it's a long name. I can't remember right now. It's a really neat when you're doing something and you need to focus on what you're doing. You enter the state of [00:34:09] I think jogging isn't enough for flow unless you're jogging on like rocks on a beach or something. but you, It's close enough that you can't just have your mind all over the place. I think you can only get a few thoughts through, and I think you get some clarity. And so if I jog while I'm working on a course, probably will come back with kind of some clarity on the approach or one so, And then it feels good 'cause it was worked through and it feels like a good idea. [00:34:42] Alan Levine: It's it like distills in your brain away from the screen, right? [00:34:46] Terry Greene: yeah. And obviously the benefits of the exercise and getting out in nature and all it's like bene triple bonus, even though it's feels like suffering sometimes when you're doing it. [00:34:59] Alan Levine: My hat's off to you. I'll give you a hat tip for that. [00:35:02] Terry Greene: I never would've expected I'd be a jogger, but, I'm really enjoying it. [00:35:07] Alan Levine: I just love talking to you, Terry. [00:35:09] Terry Greene: I love talking to you. I would do it every day. [00:35:12] Alan Levine: I'll call you tomorrow. But, thank you Terry and thank you everybody for listening. The billions of listeners that we have here to this episode of OE Global Voices-- [00:35:21] Terry Greene: Can't wait to go viral. [00:35:23] Alan Levine: Yeah, the podcast that we do from Open Education Global. And every time I do an episode, I pick a different musical track-- I don't have a single track. And I, try to find something relevant to the guest or the topic from the Free Music Archive. As Terry already mentioned, Free Music Archive is Creative Commons licensed and it's generally by independent musicians. And so I can't really use the Gettin' Air track by Chixdiggit from Terry's, but you can hear the power chords opening up. [00:35:52] And I might try to see if I can play the chords on my guitar, see how bad that sounds, for a fake intro. But if that fails, I have a backup. And so I did find a music called Breathing Out what's it's like the opposite of Gettin' Air, breathing out, Gettin' Air, breathing out. And it's by an artist named Mid-Air Machine and it's licensed Attribution Share. [00:36:16] You'll find this at our site, voices.global.org. And we try to instigate some follow up conversations in our o eject-- OEG Connect. I can't talk today. Terry, does that ever happen to you? [00:36:28] Terry Greene: Yes, definitely every day. [00:36:30] Alan Levine: All right-- in our OEG Connect community or wherever you interact with us in all the social medias. [00:36:36] And if you're listening right now and you wanna be where Terry is right now, or you wanna give us a suggestion and I hear that Terry gets frequent suggestions for guests. And we're only at 87, Terry, so I got a long way to go to get to 177. So just let us know who you would wanna see on the show, and, always great to talk to you, Terry. You're an inspiration. [00:37:01] Terry Greene: You do it right back to me, so thank you. I really appreciate it.