Episode 94: Laura Dunn and Jamie Thomas on OFAR === Intro Music and Selected Quotes --- [00:00:04] Laura Dunn: Once you get into developing, say, an OER textbook, for example, what you also then start to see are equity gaps, literally written in to some of these textbooks. And they're representing a reality, a community of people that don't reflect the realities and the communities that our students come from. [00:00:25] And so then from there, it just keeps on going. Then open pedagogy opens up this whole world where students then are able to become co-creators of knowledge and contribute to the discourse, which I think is a really powerful thing. [00:00:46] Jamie Thomas: And they are coming from different vocational and academic aspirations. So to gather these students in one place and say that a one size fits all curriculum will work is a challenge in any context. But to bring an open pedagogy standpoint and awareness of what culturally responsive strategies can do for our students, I think is such a great place to start from because it means that we are trying to be aware of the needs of rural and urban populations, the needs and access, challenges of students with disabilities, students who are incarcerated students who are transfer aspiring. Welcome to OEGlobal Voices Podcast --- [00:01:46] Alan Levine: Hello everybody, and welcome. It's November 7th and I am here in the recording studio for OEGlobal Voices, the podcast that we produce for Open Education Global. And every one of these, and we're into our high eighties that we've done over the last couple years, we share with you conversation style, people, practices and ideas from open educators around the world. Meet the Hosts and Guests --- [00:02:07] Alan Levine: I'm Alan Levine, your host. I'm coming to you a from a spot on the modern map, labeled as Moose Jaw, Saskatchewan. It's cloudy and it's gonna snow today, believe it or not. This is also Treay 4 territory, traditional lands of the Cree, Salteaux, Dakota, Nakota, and Lakota people in the homeland of the Metis Nation. [00:02:25] I learned at the conference in Edmonton about the Cree concept of Wahkohtowin and of everything and everyone being interconnected. And that's always appealed to me. It frames the work we try to do at Open Education Global. Understanding the Open for Anti-Racism (OFAR) Program --- [00:02:36] Alan Levine: Today we're gonna have conversations about the Open for Anti-Racism program, also known as OFAR, we'll probably just call it OFAR a lot. The interconnection there is that OFAR is part of CCCOER which is part of OE Global. So we're all interconnected that way. [00:02:53] I know about the program and I've worked with, Laura. But, I'm really eager myself to learn more about how it works and how open education is such an important factor in this work and to hear stories. [00:03:04] So I'm really pleased to welcome the conversation. Laura Dunn, who's the OFAR program director, and also Jamie Thomas, who's a lead coach for the program. I told him we would've fun. So welcome everybody. [00:03:16] Along with the obvious kind of introduction thing and you'll say where you are, like on the world map. But I also like to share to our audience 'cause they're just hearing audio, if you can describe where you're sitting right now, what's the environment around you? I'll, ask Jamie first 'cause she gave me a, big smile at that question. Welcome Jamie. [00:03:36] Jamie Thomas: Hi. Hi. Thank you for having us, Alan. Yeah, I am currently sitting on a very cozy couch, here at home, probably a place where I could envision myself listening to this podcast in later hours. [00:03:55] Thinking about where I do a lot of my online teaching too is from home. Many of us, since the COVID days, have thought about this home environment for us and our students. The privacy you need, the quiet, you need the all of the accoutrements to make that successful. I think that's one of the things that we kinda keep in mind with a program like OFAR, is that we are all in different places. And we use this program and its network to link us together through asynchronous and some online activity together. [00:04:36] Alan Levine: Great. And tell me where in the world is the couch located? [00:04:40] Jamie Thomas: Hey. Yeah, this couch in particular, is located in the greater Los Angeles area. I'm from Southern California. Even though I've had a chance to live probably a little closer to you, Alan, I had a chance to work at Middlebury College in Vermont for a little while. At the same time, you can say there's no place like home, just coming back to SoCal. [00:05:08] I'm proud to be from here and proud to contribute to OFAR from here. [00:05:13] Alan Levine: Okay, great. And I won't bother talking about the World Series, which was very exciting. If you're into baseball-- Middlebury, oh my gosh, I gotta talk to you. I've been there. I've good friends who live and teach there. It's one of my favorite, places. I love the whole state of Vermont too. [00:05:28] Sorry Laura, Jamie and I are getting distracted. So let's say hello to Laura Dunn who's here, to tell us a lot about OFAR and yourself. [00:05:36] Laura Dunn: Yeah, it's nice to be here. Thanks, Alan. So I am taking my cues from Jamie. I'm just re-situating myself on my office recliner at home, which, after many years is, on the ʻāina, land of Oahu, in the state of Hawaii or the kingdom of Hawaii, if you will. and it's good to be here. [00:06:05] I'm Kānaka ʻŌiwi or Kānaka Maoli native Hawaiian. And it's good to be back. It's a balmy 78 degrees in early November. The trade winds are blowing. And this is, I think, my sixth month back being home after living on and off in the Bay Area for almost a decade. [00:06:29] So I'm very grateful to be here, and to what Jamie said, a testament to how our work operates, across state lines, across oceans, across different geographies and different cultures. [00:06:46] So thanks for having me. [00:06:48] Alan Levine: Oh, great. Oh, I'm excited already. Personal Backgrounds of Laura and Jamie --- [00:06:50] Alan Levine: I like to also ask, 'cause it's always interesting to me, i'll start Laura, where did you grow up? And what did you think of school as a kid? What kind of student were you? [00:07:02] Laura Dunn: I did grow up here on Oahu, in Honolulu, which compared to the rest of Hawaii is like the big city. And so I very much identify as like a quote unquote island city kid. I come from a family of educators, so it's not a very exciting upbringing in terms of my education. [00:07:27] I was a little nerdy, always loved-- I love most of school. I was not a big fan of math, I have to admit. But my aunt was my eighth grade English teacher and my grandfather taught multiple European languages in high school until he became a college administrator in his later years. Education is really, I feel like it's in my bones. I grew up listening to my aunt, complaining about working in the classroom, sometimes loving it, talking about issues with parents, her challenges with teaching, and also enjoying some of the celebrations when students really got it, or, students were doing really good work and were able to overcome challenges. [00:08:21] Jamie Thomas: It sounds like the complexities of education were readily apparent to you early on. [00:08:28] Laura Dunn: Yes, very much Yeah. [00:08:32] Alan Levine: And what about young Jamie? Where did she start going to school? [00:08:36] Jamie Thomas: I might have a similar upbringing to Laura in the sense that I was here on the mainland, if you will, but grew up with parents who were the first in their families to finish high school and also the only, and first to finish, college. [00:08:53] So for them, education and higher ed was really important. It was like this conduit to going beyond small town America. And I think for us too, growing up as African-Americans, we really had just this strong appreciation for what higher ed can do, in terms of broadening your horizons and allowing you, or encouraging you even through K 12, to deepen your repertoire when it comes to context and understanding of the United States and its positioning here as a colonial global entity. [00:09:38] I grew up, celebrating Kwanza, and one of the key components of Kwanza is gifting and reading of books each day of that celebration. So that was an opportunity for my parents to double down on some history about education and things like that in this context we live in. [00:09:59] And, I'll, never forget that and as much as you might stray away or attempt to stray away from like your roots and what your parents do and all of that, look at me. I'm an educator now, and that's what my mom was doing. That's what my dad was doing on the weekends, volunteering. He would volunteer as an engineer, with NSBE National Society of Black Engineers, just doing like weekend science and math programs with kids. [00:10:31] I think when you approach education in a way where you find a spark in it and it's about the curiosity in it, then it feels really fun and exciting to try to bring more students into that and your fellow colleagues. I think that's part of the approach we have with OFAR is we are trying to ignite curiosity and and energy around wanting to know more. [00:11:03] Alan Levine: Fabulous. I'm learning so much already and I wanna think about the conversations you must have with your family about education in 2025. We'll come back to that maybe, but we're here to talk about OFAR and there's so much information about it. We're gonna refer people to the website. [00:11:20] But, Laura, can you do the introduction for us? I'm sure you've had to do this many times, but, it could be the formal explanation or it could be the one when you talk to people who have no idea what it is. [00:11:32] Laura Dunn: They're not that different, Alan, because I think what we do is so applicable to anybody. You don't have to be a university administrator. You can be anybody to really grab a hold of what it is that we're doing. The Genesis of OFAR --- [00:11:47] Laura Dunn: But I will take us back to 2020, which is several years before I even got started my work with OFAR. COVID was going on, number one. So there was a lot of kind of tension. People were all stuck at home. Schools had shut down for the most part. All learning had gone online. And that was also the Spring of the George Floyd incident. If you're in the United States, you're very well aware of that. So universities all across the country, or most universities and colleges across the country, spoke out against what was going on in terms of discrimination and equity, across the board but particularly within higher education. [00:12:40] Despite all of these statements, these DEI statements, my predecessor, Una Daly, and my co-director James really dug into it and realized that, people weren't really doing a lot to back up those statements of equity in higher ed. [00:13:00] So OFAR steps in then as a really actionable professional development program that helps faculty harness the power of OER and open pedagogy in their classrooms and in their teaching so that their teaching can become more accessible, regardless of student backgrounds. Students are then invited to bring their quote unquote whole selves. We say that a lot, in colleges and universities, but do we really mean it? [00:13:35] But within OFAR we're really looking for ways and strategies to help faculty bring their students-- the whole student-- into the classroom. There's I think 118 to 122 community colleges across the state of California and OFAR has had cohorts and teams from these colleges over the past six years now who are learning how to apply OER and open pedagogy to their teaching. [00:14:03] And there's also the research background to this is that it's not just something fun to do. We're really looking to collect data on how open ed and OER can improve student learning experience and outcomes. And we are now in our sixth year, with our, I don't know how many hundreds of faculty that we've served, I think we're up to now almost 2000 students who have been in OFAR classes. [00:14:35] So we're really proud of what we do. And I have no problem talking about it to anybody. [00:14:41] Alan Levine: Oh, that's great. and for people who aren't aware, California is huge. The sheer number of institutions and also huge in terms of everything from the big cities to small towns, ranches, rural communities, the mountains, it's just, it's, a country unto itself almost. [00:15:03] Laura Dunn: It is, thanks for bringing that up. And this year in OFAR what I'm excited about is we have representation from colleges, a lot of colleges, in the Central Valley. And for those of you who know California, familiar with California, know about Central Valley, but those of you who don't, it's a lot of ag land, a lot of agriculture, a lot of farming. [00:15:26] And so these community colleges are very small. They tend to be very landlocked, isolated away from larger cities. So we're looking at completely different demographic at these schools as compared to other schools. Say like Laney College, which is in Oakland, in the Bay Area. who they were a part OFAR last year. [00:15:50] So we really get to have a lot of fun learning about these different educational contexts with our faculty and what they're doing to bring this work into their schools and into their particular student groups. [00:16:05] Alan Levine: A program like this could have been organized and done in many ways. But what is the unique connection and the reason to make this connection between anti-racism teaching and open education? Implementing OFAR in Community Colleges --- [00:16:16] Laura Dunn: First of all, it starts off with understanding the need for accessibility for learning materials, right? Jamie and I had this great conversation the other day about equity gaps and their relationship to opportunity gaps for students. And we see in community colleges, that there are indeed a lot of opportunity gaps. [00:16:47] This last year in 2025, a student survey was put out by Real College California. They found that, compared to four year students, community college students are likely to be from low income families, racially minoritized, they're first gen, sometimes we have students from other countries and certainly we have adult learners. [00:17:15] And so OER comes in as a way to, first of all, cut down costs so that people don't have to worry about spending money and resources on textbooks. Once you get into developing, say, an OER textbook, for example, what you also then start to see are equity gaps, literally written in to some of these textbooks. And they're representing a reality, a community of people that don't reflect the realities and the communities that our students come from. [00:17:50] And so then from there, it just keeps on going. Then open pedagogy opens up this whole world where students then are able to become co-creators of knowledge and contribute to the discourse, which I think is a really powerful thing. [00:18:07] Alan Levine: When you look at the structure of the program, that a lot of it's about an opportunity for faculty-- I love that you call them the "students"-- but they are, they're both. They get a chance to experience and understand open education, open pedagogy as a practice that hopefully unfolds as they go. [00:18:26] Laura Dunn: it definitely unfolds as they go. And I can talk about the structure of OFAR in a little bit but we're really looking at what faculty are doing across an entire year from learning about open educational resources, learning about open, pedagogy through courses and webinars, and then taking it into their classroom with their students, in specific classes across a wide range of disciplines from Engineering to English Lit to Foreign Language and ESL. [00:19:00] Jamie Thomas: I can, jump in here just to add that I think that we are trying to roll out an open pedagogy approach in the professional development experience for our colleagues in the community colleges. We want them to experience what it's like to be on the receiving end of having opportunities for choice in how they demonstrate their knowledge and experience, and also how it feels to be greeted by a curriculum that speaks to who they are and what their experiences are. [00:19:44] I think that's one of the enduring challenges of working with community college populations sometimes, is that we can have such variable and exciting groups of folks to work with. We have students who are parents by and large. We have students who are making career transitions or who are the first to grab hold of college and their families. [00:20:10] And they are coming from different vocational and academic aspirations. So to gather these students in one place and say that a one size fits all curriculum will work is a challenge in any context. But to bring an open pedagogy standpoint and awareness of what culturally responsive strategies can do for our students, I think is such a great place to start from because it means that we are trying to be aware of the needs of rural and urban populations, the needs and access, challenges of students with disabilities, students who are incarcerated students who are transfer aspiring. Our program has worked with faculty teams that address and serve all of these different populations. And I think that's something that we are exceedingly proud of and we look forward to continuing. [00:21:20] Alan Levine: I guess that people come to the program, they've heard open pedagogy and they know it's important, but maybe haven't experienced it. Is that what's happening? [00:21:30] Jamie Thomas: I think, yeah, there's little smatterings here and there. And of course here in California the notion of OER has gathered more cache in recent years, particularly because of the textbook affordability piece that Laura has talked about. And so I think that unique aspect that we bring to this is saying, much like Jasmine Roberts Cruz has advocated. [00:22:01] We don't just want the textbook to be affordable. We want it to be relevant not only to you as the educator, but also to your students. And we try to provide a framework for developing those strategies throughout the academic year of the OFAR program. Challenges and Successes of OFAR --- [00:22:18] Alan Levine: So we have this huge state, we have this large number of community colleges, we've got faculty at many distributed ones-- how does it all work? like, how's it coordinated? [00:22:28] Jamie Thomas: It's a mess, Alan. It's a total mess [laughter]. [00:22:32] Alan Levine: It's organic. It's alive. I know, it's a lot to organize and a lot is distributed i, would gather. You've talked some or we've alluded to, there's the online part and then there's a part of faculties integrating their practice, I would guess that there's some kind of community level of activity. [00:22:52] And how do you, keep tabs on it? And what does it look like on the ground at these at different institutions? [00:23:00] Jamie Thomas: You nailed it. I think, what's really cool about this program and what made it so adaptable and flexible during the pandemic time was that we are able to do this work apart, right? So we do have the asynchronous components that operate by and large through our Canvas course, which is our professional development hub. [00:23:25] We move through modules weekly. And we do that for six weeks in in the Fall. But along the way, we have live webinars that bring our group together. Laura is a big part of organizing those live presentations and dialogue sessions, I would say. Part of my role is working with a couple of co-facilitators who are also the course developers. [00:23:52] And, we keep that asynchronous course experience feeling. We try to do our best to have that feel dynamic, right? So we are providing regular feedback in there. We update the homepage in Canvas. And for those of you who use Canvas a lot, that can make a difference in an asynchronous environment. [00:24:15] And we taped a-- I just dated myself by saying "taped"-- but we taped a welcome video. We keep a lot of the information for the program centralized in that space so that folks can come back to it on their own time. Then that course stays open even as we have completed it into the Spring, so that folks can use it as a repository for information as they're working in that springtime implementation phase of what we conclude in the course with an Action plan. [00:24:53] And it just so happens, Alan, that we are in these weeks of the course where we're actually developing that rough draft and final draft of the Action Plan. but that's something that we find to be really a guiding force as we move towards the Spring because then it's folks really trying that out, really experimenting with open pedagogies in their classrooms, which just makes the program. Community and Collaboration in OFAR --- [00:25:19] Alan Levine: is there ever any gathering that you are able to meet, 'cause that's an important factor after you have gotten to know each other, asynchronously? [00:25:29] Laura Dunn: Yes. You mentioned Alan, a little while ago about how the faculty themselves grow and develop and what they're doing grows and develops. It is in part organic. I like to think of what we're doing as, organic, but partially like iterative and responsive to what our faculty participants are looking for. [00:25:54] And so we have the framework for OFAR which is we have so many colleges that we can take per year, so many participants that we can take per year. And in the early days of OFAR and I admit that I speak a little bit outside of my experience 'cause I was not there in the early days, one of the things that faculty really wanted was more opportunities to dialogue with one another. I imagine particularly during COVID, this was very much in demand. [00:26:23] So every year since then, we collect informal feedback surveys from people, like "what do you want? What would help you grow? What would help you feel like you were making an impact?" And I, have to say that year after year, the one thing that is repeated, no matter how much work we've done on it, is that people want more and more community. [00:26:47] So one of the ways that we've attempted to address this in a online only format is through adaptation of our webinar series, which is every Spring. As Jamie said, in the Fall, our eight college cohorts really buckle down. They work together within their teams to think through the impact they're gonna have in their classroom and in their college. And they develop a personal action plan for implementation in a Spring course. In order to support them in the spring, because now the course is no longer, they've completed it so that online interaction that they were receiving from Jamie and our other course facilitators, Joy and Kim, is for the most part, no longer. [00:27:34] There are a couple opportunities. We experimented with the idea of what's called the un-webinar the last couple of years where it's completely optional. We just open up that zoom room for folks and have them come in. People really love that because they get to meet. We have folks from urban colleges dialoguing with people in rural colleges, commiserating sometimes over very similar issues within their classrooms and their institutions. [00:28:04] People in similar disciplines get to dialogue, especially in those underrepresented disciplines. When we're talking about OER and open pedagogy such as say, Business Admin or something like that, Humanities is probably the first thing people think of when they think of how do I make my class more equitable. [00:28:24] We're experimenting with new formats for our webinars, having them be, less lecture based and maybe half lecture and half Q&A. One thing that we are always striving for, and we hope that we can do at some point, would be to figure out how to bring everybody together as a community of practice at some of these conferences and these workshops. [00:28:53] We try to do that every once in a while. but we know that friendships are developed and people are carrying on the work after the year. But that's one of my important goals is after our year is over together, how can we maintain our conversations and our connections with one another? [00:29:09] Jamie Thomas: And, I can jump in and speak to that a little bit too, that sometimes as a coach in this program, you get paired with a college that is physically very far away. For example, here I am in Southern California, I've worked with faculty who are in Northern California or Central California, which is a little bit less accessible to me by road and by car, right? [00:29:37] At one point I was fortunate to have some colleagues in this program who were at a nearby college, maybe within 20 miles. And with that being the case, I was able to reach out to some of the folks on the team and say, "Hey, how about a coffee? How about like a distance safe, coffee outdoors, however you feel like it?" [00:30:02] We were able to do that and that added so much to the program, just being able to have an in-person conversation or two. For me, that snowballed into a couple of extended friendships out of this program. And, that I think also speaks to the awesome people who have the audacity to want to volunteer to join a program like this. [00:30:29] Even, as this program is stipended, right? it's not an exorbitant take home amount that we're offering, but it is something that we hope just acknowledges the effort that folks put into this. [00:30:47] And I'll just also say that in those communities that our faculty teams are able to build on their own campuses, right, because we've encouraged cohorts of faculty from a particular college to do this together. We see that their connection goes beyond this program. For example, I had the privilege of working with a college in the Imperial Valley, which is that lower part of California near Arizona and Mexico borders. [00:31:22] And those faculty organized a professional development day session to talk about and encourage other faculty to learn from their experiences developing open pedagogies and projects, [with] students across disciplines. We had a Historian, English Comp, Psychology, Mathematician all part of this team. [00:31:53] Drove to that [part of the] state, just cheer them on in person with flex day presentations. And it was so exciting. It was so exciting to see this as an outcome of the program, but to also see that these faculty have made a commitment on their campus to share this out. And it's one thing to get all this information and all this good stuff for yourself and your students, but to share it, is what I think, we're all about with open education. [00:32:25] And it really extends the reach and the longevity, the sustainability of these approaches in community college. [00:32:35] Alan Levine: I don't know. I, think a long trip up Highway One would be very appealing. [00:32:39] Jamie Thomas: Ooh. Yeah. [00:32:41] Alan Levine: Can you talk some about the challenges of implementing open education in community colleges, say compared to four year institutions? Why is it successful in community colleges, where this program is focused? [00:32:53] Laura Dunn: We haven't attempted to implement this in a four year college, so we are kept very busy with our community colleges for sure. In terms of why is it successful in community colleges, this also ties into your previous question about do you ever get a chance to have community and connect with one another. [00:33:16] And first of all, there is a need, and second-- in Hawaii we call it Pilinahā, and it's the power of connection with either your own kinfolk or just your community around you. And so what is so amazing about OFAR is we're all coming from different institutions and yeah, you need a job, you gotta pay your mortgage, your rent, and all that. And that's why you go. [00:33:42] But at OFAR you really get the sense that people are here because it's really mission and values aligned. We have this wonderful community of folks from all across the state of California and the community colleges that see a need for this learning in wherever they are in the state. [00:34:04] And they feel connected to the mission, not just our mission, but this overarching idea that learning can and should be accessible to anybody no matter what their background is. I think that's one of the hugest successes for us so far. It's such a great community of people. I've done a lot of things in my life, worked in a lot of places, and within OFAR and within our cohorts across the state, it's really uncanny how connected you can feel to somebody you've never met in person or maybe you've only known for 10 minutes. That's been really a gift. [00:34:49] In terms of challenges, and I can only speak as like the program director, one of the challenges that I see for implementation of this in community colleges, number one for us is our capacity. We want to be able to do so much more but of course there are limitations to what we can do. That's the brilliance of the model is that we plant seeds in each of our faculty participants and then hopefully those seed sprout and they grow and the knowledge spreads. [00:35:27] Another, I don't know if I would call it so much a challenge, but it is something that we think about certainly, is that different colleges, different places, our faculty have different levels of administrative support from their leadership. And it's not to say that leadership is somehow averse to what we are doing, it could be a matter of capacity or funding or competing interests. [00:35:59] So that's something that we're always trying to navigate, especially in the beginning of our OFAR year as we're reviewing new applicants, is really thinking through, is your library set up to help you with OER? If you experience problems doing the work that you're doing, how available will your dean or your vice president or whoever it is, or your department chair, how available are they and how open are they to listening to you? [00:36:31] So those are some of the things that I think about, and try to work out before our OFAR year starts. Jamie, what about you? [00:36:40] Jamie Thomas: I can add another layer of challenge, which, in this program we might approach as an opportunity, but we have folks working toward an action plan that we come up with the semester before they then attempt to implement many of these strategies. And sometimes a lot can happen between November, December as you've finalized what you think you'll do, and then January, February, where you get that course assignment and then you meet your students for the first time. [00:37:17] One of the things we talk about with folks as we also have them connect with past participants through say a live webinar so that they can learn from other folks who've gone through this journey. But we talk to them about flexibility and adaptability as part of that open ethos, the sense that I wanna be able to collaborate with whomever I actually do connect with through my classroom. [00:37:50] And in that sense, we can try to help them be as adaptable as possible to whatever course they might end up getting assigned to at the last minute. Or, the particulars of who their students are and what their students are interested most in learning. And sometimes that connects really well with this idea of wanting to localize, say, a Biology curriculum or a History curriculum or a Cosmetology curriculum so that what is learned in the class also has immediate relevance to the neighborhood environment where our students are circulating and possibly going to serve new clients or stand up programs of their own. [00:38:42] Alan Levine: So Laura has any universities, I mean you said you're not doing work with the four years, but have they come knocking at your door at all? [00:38:48] Laura Dunn: Yes and no. One of the things, and I hope I'm not jumping too far ahead here, is we're always thinking about how can we broaden our impact. So of course the first thought would be to go straight to a four year university. We have had universities, or excuse me, colleges contact us from outside of California, which is really great. [00:39:14] The question is always, "Do you ever accept cohorts from out of the state?" And that's always percolating in the back of my mind. Like, how could we make that work? ' It is a little bit easier for us all in the state, same chancellor's office, similar handbooks, similar structures, same time zone. [00:39:36] And we've also had universities from Canada reach out to us and wanting to talk about what we're doing. I would love, for OFAR to branch out, and go into that four year space. So I'm gonna stay open and, see what's possible for years eight and nine for sure. [00:40:00] Alan Levine: How do faculty come be part of the program? Do they sign up? Does someone shoulder tap 'em? [00:40:06] Laura Dunn: All of the above. All of the above. So we put out an open call every year in the summer for the next cohort, which begins late September, early October, somewhere around there. And we usually get flooded with a bunch of applications. Then we unfortunately have to make choices. We have a selection process that we go through. [00:40:30] But if I'm honest, I would say that every single one of our colleges is more than qualified to join OFAR, it's really less about being qualified, to join OFAR we look at a lot of things like statewide distribution of schools. This year I mentioned that we have a lot of colleges in the central coast, because we identified that area as maybe not having as many colleges represented over the years. [00:40:58] So we look at things like that. We look at disciplinary distribution, so that we're, again, it's about broadening that impact. How do we, as the OFAR leadership, we're also in this learning process of understanding how OFAR can be applied in totally different disciplines. [00:41:21] Then we just send a letter. Right now we accept eight colleges per year with a max of like, 45 people. It goes up and down depending on the year. But, 45 participants. [00:41:36] Alan Levine: And, I would imagine a wide range of disciplines represented. I heard Cosmetology represented. So do you hit everything from the academics to the vocational fields? [00:41:46] Jamie Thomas: Yeah, we're super excited to connect this year also with a cohort of librarians and information science folks. Really we want this to be, I think, a great experimental staging ground for incubating ideas about the different directions that open pedagogy can go in. We're looking to learn from the folks who join this program about how to engage and implement transformative strategies for students that come from every walk of life. [00:42:25] In our annual sort of team showcase as we conclude the program, we have each team come together and give a brief presentation of what they have done. I remember learning so much from a team that was coming from a college in inland, central California, that was largely engaged with incarcerated students. They had a very different set of challenges, such as needing to prepare a full set of open materials before the semester began so that their students could have access to that. [00:43:06] The materials needed to be offline as well, in some cases for the context of where their students are. It brought to mind a number of circumstances and needs that I had not thoroughly considered. To engage with folks in those different capacities is really eye-opening. [00:43:31] Alan Levine: I was just remembering, I talked to a faculty member at Yavapai, a college in Arizona, and he was telling me what he teaches and he teaches the people how to do all the things you need to do to go up and repair telephone lines. And it's like you don't even think about that, that someone needs those skills. [00:43:48] And, that's the beauty of, what community colleges do. [00:43:51] So what does it look like on the ground at a particular institution? We got a sense of the online sessions and the cohorts, but what does it take at one institution to organize this. [00:44:03] Laura Dunn: Since Jamie is our lead coach, so she definitely has boots on the ground. [00:44:07] Jamie Thomas: Alan, I think it would say, I would say it starts with that group or maybe a single person reaching out to a couple colleagues and saying, "Hey, is anyone interested in this program?" Because once we send out that summer call, it is on the local person to gather a cohort of say, four or five folks who wanna try this together. [00:44:33] And then they write up a little blurb or two that's part of that application. We even offer a webinar, like a brief webinar, that sort of says, "Hey, this is how to fill out that application." Part of that application asks folks to solicit support in the form of a written letter of recommendation or so from a college administrator. [00:44:59] So that right there can end up being a point of discovery about more about your institution. Also as part of that application, we ask folks to think about how their course articulates with other degree programs or how many students it serves so that we can also get a sense of what the reach is. [00:45:25] Reading some of those applications, it's interesting because I think some folks are maybe getting stuck into some of that information for the first time too. The on the ground part is about gaining a little bit of experience and curiosity with how and who you serve through your classes. [00:45:46] And then beyond that, It's about possibly looking for points of connection on your campus with the cohort as we move through the program. [00:45:59] Laura Dunn: One of the other things that will happen for our folks once they're accepted into the program, is the research component of all of this, which is large for us in terms of documenting impact and also going into this iterative mode of, what can we do better? So we have a research team, a very talented and amazing research team. [00:46:27] I can't speak highly enough about them. They work with us to create these pre-surveys for our folks. In their writeup, they give us kind of their perspective of possible challenges based on demographics within their schools. Then once they start the program, our research team and on ourselves, we get together and we review a survey so that we get the hard data, the numbers, like " which classes are you teaching? How many students are gonna be in your classes?" And the students themselves, once we get into the Spring, also agree to complete a survey. [00:47:09] It all has to go through a college's Office of Institutional Research, so that all needs to be approved. And then at the end of the semester, that clearance from the Office of Institutional Research, which is why we need that administrative support so badly, is it allows us to look at the student outcomes and what really happened at the end of the year, within these OFAR classes and compared to other classes in the same university and other classes across the state. [00:47:43] Alan Levine: You've talked about the action plans, what do they look like? What does it take to put together an action plan to develop your anti-racism teaching? [00:47:51] Jamie Thomas: Great question, Alan. I think an action plan can start off as a set of bullet points, quite frankly, that are addressing short-term goals and long-term goals with the sense of what types of smaller day-to-day activities might I incorporate or experiment with my students. Say, the way that I ask students at the end of each class, "How it going, what did you gather from this lesson?" something folks might call an exit ticket strategy. [00:48:31] "How am I implementing that?" And "what do I wanna try with that?" On the longer term, it could go into more summative assessments. "How am I rolling out my exams?" Or is there room in there to try other opportunities for students to demonstrate their knowledge. [00:48:52] " Can I experiment with the syllabus that I roll out? Can I personalize that or humanize that in different ways? What are some of the other policies that I implement in my course? Are all of these conducive to my learners?" So we try to think about the many ways that folks can go about this and how they might implement an open pedagogy project with their students such that the action plan could end up with the students and the educator creating a repository or a module that can then be rolled out and rolled over into the next semester or the next offering of the course, or something public facing that could be of interest to folks beyond their campus. And at the same time, it's gotta have that flexibility and that feasibility that we spoke to earlier. [00:49:52] We try to have brainstorming with folks and then help them see what are the bite sized and the shark sized chunks of what they can do. [00:50:03] Alan Levine: Shark size! [00:50:04] Of course it's gonna change as they go, the action plan is what they set out to do. And there's learning that happens. The videos that they produce at the end and I've enjoyed seeing a few of them. That must be like really rewarding to see that arc. [00:50:18] Do you have any ones that just stand out for you? [00:50:20] Laura Dunn: So many. There are so many, we ourselves keep a repository. One of the things that we ask our participants to do is to get these artifacts, anything that you've done, and upload it to the commons for us. And so we keep track of all of the wonderful things that people are doing. [00:50:40] Some things that stick out to me is in a history course one of the projects that the student did, was to create a visual history of the Central Valley, rather than just sticking through to the textbook, right? What does the textbook stay about the Central Valley? [00:50:58] So projects like that I think are really cool. Or in Business courses, adapting an OER chapter that looks at the way race is represented in advertising and marketing, for instance, or Anatomy and Physiology. one project that somebody did was to actually go through an OER textbook and just swap out some of those images of human bodies and present like a range of human bodies that are more representative of the lived population. [00:51:34] Jamie Thomas: Laura, I'm gonna jump in because you just reminded me that previously I was working with a faculty member in Kinesiology who was also a athletic coach, and part of what they did was implement greater representation across their course materials because as they were talking with me, they were saying, "You know what, all the people represented in this textbook are like super thin, super young. And the people that are actually in my classes at my college are folks who are coming in at different stages of fitness, different stages of different age ranges. And none of that is reflected in the book. And we're looking at this book and it just doesn't even feel right." [00:52:21] So the range of projects is so cool. [00:52:26] Laura Dunn: And well, Jamie, I think that the work that you did with Laney College last year, our Cosmetology folks, I thought that was a totally different action plan. I don't know if you wanna share what happened there. [00:52:39] Jamie Thomas: Yeah, really, fun. These were folks who work with students in a lab environment, if you will. So they are trying to help folks look their best, let's put it that way. But they were challenged by not having access to materials in their lab that were representative of different skin types different hair types and textures. [00:53:02] And so the result was students graduating from the program without adequate training. But what they did through this program was really make that a focus and make it a focus also to emphasize projects for students that connected them with their small business potential. Is just really exciting to see folks in vocational fields be able to also take advantage of these transformative pedagogies. [00:53:31] Laura Dunn: Yeah, I think that the work that was done in Cosmetology was really revelatory in a lot of ways, because often in higher ed, we start from a place of theory, right? Then we have in our imagination that somehow it's just gonna trickle down and it's gonna make sense to the rest of the world. As bus drivers get in their bus to go take kids to school, or the technicians that work on your computers are fixing things that go wrong. [00:54:00] But for our  Cosmetology folks, I could see that the very practical way that you can absolutely 100% change the discourse from moving from having an appropriate mannequin or model in your class, giving people the opportunity to really inquire into beauty standards For different groups of people. [00:54:21] I was just really pleased with that and I hope we have more opportunities to, to work in the technical school space, for sure. [00:54:28] Alan Levine: That's exciting. I just think like you can only read about and see so many videos and practice. Sooner or later you gotta like cut someone's hair. You have to do that to learn it. [00:54:38] Jamie Thomas: Absolutely. Absolutely. Future Directions and Toolkit Development --- [00:54:40] Alan Levine: Sixth year of the OFAR program, what's really important that has been happening this year and also like into the future? Let's scan it to eight and nine, Laura and Jamie. Where do you wanna go? [00:54:55] Laura Dunn: Now that we're in the sixth year of our program, there have been, I call them micro changes every year. And those micro changes, together, end up being quite substantial. One of the things that was indeed organic was the transformation of our coaching model where in the beginning started with coaches and they would meet with folks once a month. [00:55:21] But like I said before, because everybody shares these values, coaches really began to wanna meet with their teams more intimately, maybe have one-on-ones with folks, do the group meetings. So coaching has developed in ways that I couldn't have anticipated. We've also just recently completed an in-depth review on our instructional design within our Canvas course, and also a DEI review, and that's resulted in a lot of changes across our course. We've updated a lot of the resources and some of our pedagogical strategies, including updating our webinar format for active dialogue and discussion. [00:56:19] In terms of what we're looking at toward in the future of OFAR, the biggest thing on our list is the cultivation of an OFAR Toolkit, and that's the first time that we're actually talking about that to a public audience. So this is like the big news drop, yeah. [00:56:41] And Alan you asked, have other colleges or universities ever gotten in touch with you? [00:56:46] So what we're hoping we can do is that we can harness some of that knowledge. We are in dialogue with, and we know of colleges in New York and Wisconsin that have adapted our open courses-- there are courses from previous years available as OER people can download it from the Canvas Commons. [00:57:07] And people have done that and they've adapted it. So this toolkit then will be a way for people from very different educational contexts, such as tribal schools, for instance. What is OER gonna look like? Or what is OFAR gonna look like in our global schools, when we think about equity, maybe we're thinking about different things in different categories, say in the global south. [00:57:34] So that's what I'm looking forward to this Spring and in the following year. What about you, Jamie? [00:57:41] Jamie Thomas: I think that it's exciting to think about what happens on the long term as folks take some of these strategies back to their campuses. And I would love an opportunity, I think, to reach back in time and connect with some of our OFAR alums, and ask them how it's going, maybe have them share with maybe current program attendees. [00:58:07] What have you learned that still sticks with you maybe three, four or five years, since your participation in the program? And so to have that longitudinal view I think would be valuable as well. [00:58:19] Alan Levine: I saw in your notes you refer to them as OFARians, is it that common language? [00:58:25] Laura Dunn: I dunno. I, don't know where that came [00:58:29] Alan Levine: I just loved it. [00:58:30] Laura Dunn: ...from the wasteland of my mind. [00:58:33] Jamie Thomas: Yeah. Yeah. We so we use "OFARians". I, myself have used "OFAR Superstars" but we try to come up with other monikers that also energize. [00:58:46] Laura Dunn: Yeah. Yeah. [00:58:48] Alan Levine: That's fun. Closing Remarks and Personal Insights --- [00:58:49] Alan Levine: So all this work that can consume all hours of your day, I'd love to hear some things that you do, away from this, that are fulfilling and rewarding to you. What do you do outside of work? [00:58:58] Jamie Thomas: When am I not working, Alan? Yeah, I have to take a beat here. Laura, anything, on your plate? [00:59:07] Laura Dunn: Yeah, sure. That is a good question. When are we not working? [00:59:12] I'm a little bit of a fitness fanatic, which is one of the reasons why I'm so glad to be back in my homeland in Hawaii, where the weather is always welcoming you outside to go take a walk or hike or jump in the water. So that is definitely how I spend my time. [00:59:30] My sort of sad joke is that in another life I was probably a fitness instructor or something like that. And I was actually, I taught yoga for 20 years but I'm very far from that now. If I had more hours in my day, that's how I'd spend it. I would be outside and moving my body and getting in touch with nature. [00:59:52] Alan Levine: Jamie, it could be like books you read or cooking. I don't know. Yeah. there's gotta be things you do. Yeah. [00:59:59] Jamie Thomas: Yeah, there are a few things I do now that you mention it. I have had fun. I live in an area that's not far from like Little Arabia here in SoCal, and so I've had fun visiting different Middle Eastern restaurants. On the fitness level, I try to preserve and reserve time for a weekly Tai Chi class that keeps me going, that gives me a moment offline to restore and renew. [01:00:28] So we do find these ways that I think keep us able to give by giving to ourselves a little bit. [01:00:40] Alan Levine: I really thank you both. It's good to hear how you talk about it and the passion of your voices. I wanna thank our listeners who are tuning in to this episode of OE Global Voices. Again, it's what we do here at Open Education Global and we hope you enjoyed our conversation as much as I did with Laura and Jamie about the OFAR program. [01:00:58] There's a lot more to learn on the the website, which is cccoer.org/ofar very easy to find . I got lost when I was like looking through all the materials there so much to learn. Each episode of the podcast, I pick a different musical track from the Free Music Archive because that's openly licensed music. [01:01:18] So for today's show, I found a track called Everyone Knows It, by an artist name Crowander, or is it Crow Wander? I don't know. That's the name of artists. [01:01:27] It's licensed under Creative Commons Attribution, non-commercial Share-Alike license. And you find this episode, it might be into the new year, maybe by the end of the year at voices.oeglobal.org [01:01:40] We like to have some follow up discussions in our OEG Connect community or wherever you interact with us in social media. The OFARians are spread far and wide, and if you're listening, you wanna share any of your open education work, ideas or dreams, or tell us who we should have on here, just please let us know. [01:01:58] And, Laura and Jamie it.has just been a sheer pleasure talking to you and I hope we get to hear more about OFAR. [01:02:05] Laura Dunn: Thanks, Alan. It was nice being here and talking with you. It was a great way to spend a Friday. Thank you so much. [01:02:11] Jamie Thomas: Thank you so much, Alan.