Episode 95: Saida Affouneh === Intro Music and Highlighted Quote --- [00:00:05] Saida Affouneh: I never dare to drink water in front of them because maybe they haven't to drink water for the last three or four days. I never dare to smile even. I'm trying to let them smile. And all the time I say to them, "You have a broken all the theories of education, because all the theories of education are talking about a good learning environment." Here, there is no learning environment. There is no classroom, there is no campuses, there is no resources. [00:00:36] There is no-- there is nothing. There's only one thing, the will and desire of learning. [00:00:43] Meet Saida Affouneh --- [00:00:47] Alan Levine: Well, hello, here we are. It's 2026 and it's episode 95, the very first episode of OE Global Voices for this year. I'm Alan Levine from Open Education Global, and I am really, really excited to bring you this episode I recorded last week on January 22nd with Saida Affouneh from An-Najah University in Palestine. [00:01:13] We first came across Saida when she was nominated last year for an Open Education award for excellence, and we even were excited in October when we were able to announce that she was a winner in the leadership category. We were fortunate to have Saida as a panelist on our discussion session on the first day of the OE Global World Tour. So I think you're gonna really enjoy this episode. I know I did, and this is gonna be the first in the series of the podcasts that we're gonna do, i'm a little bit behind, but we're catching up, with the winners of last year. So you can get to know them better as people, their work, their influences, and just to understand them better by hearing them in their own voices. [00:01:55] Salam alaykum. Hello. And I'm just so pleased to see you this morning, Saida. [00:02:03] Let's just start out, let our podcast listeners know where you are and, of course the introduction, what you do. People usually will give where they are in the world. But I also like to ask, because it's a podcast, if you can describe the setting where you're sitting right now. Saida's Background and Early Life --- [00:02:20] Saida Affouneh: Thank you, Alan, I, I live in Nablus. Nablus is part of Palestine. Palestine is a very beautiful place, a very beautiful country. It's the place of peace, but there is no peace. [00:02:35] It is represented by olive trees and it's full of people, who are lovely people praying for their education, praying for their rights, praying for peace everywhere in this world. But at the same time, they are fighting for that-- fighting through education, fighting through different ways. [00:02:59] But for me, I'm fighting through education. I'm fighting through Open Education Resources. I'm fighting through talking about it, about the narratives of the stories, the narrative of the people, about the stories of the oppressed people who don't like to be oppressed, who like to be just like everybody around this world. [00:03:22] Palestine for me, is not just home. Every time when I travel, people ask me, where are you from? And when I say Palestine, many people, they don't know where is Palestine. They keep saying it's is, are you from Pakistan? I say, no, I'm from the Holy Land where Jesus was born. I'm from the Holy Land where all the religions around the world based and started from there. [00:03:51] And, I feel all the time when I talk to people around the world, I feel the pleasure of telling them about my country since it used to be unrecognized, but nowadays it's more recognized as there are a lot of people supporting Palestine. [00:04:11] Alan Levine: I have a good idea where the map location is, and I'm glad you described the olive trees. I don't necessarily have a picture, a sense of feel, what it's like to be there. And so I hope we can get to that through some of our conversations today. [00:04:26] But can you just tell us, where, did you start in this world? Where were you born? Where did you grow up? [00:04:32] Saida Affouneh: Let me tell you the truth. I look at myself as a global person. My heart is Palestine. My brain is the globe. I was born in Nablus. Nablus is a beautiful city between two mountains. And it lies in West Bank in Palestine. Educational Journey and Challenges --- [00:04:59] Saida Affouneh: And, I have studied my first degree and second degree and schooling in Nablus, but I did my PhD in the UK. I traveled a lot around the world to learn more and to talk more about education. [00:05:06] I was not a lucky child. But now I'm a lucky person, because- and a lucky woman because I have the opportunity to talk, to share, to learn, with other people. Why I say I was not a lucky child because nobody wants to be born in a place where it is occupied. Where you don't have the luxury of just go to school or the luxury of just being able to travel or to walk or even to play or to find some resources to learn. [00:05:43] It was very difficult to find-- like this is why I put in my background, all the time the books. And I know it's real for yours, but for me it's a picture. But this is why I choose it, because I start my learning journey through searching for books, through searching for resources since it was not available everywhere. [00:06:07] Later on I, grow up trying to find ways of how people can learn in a better way and have the pleasure of finding their learning resources, have the pleasure of finding a safe place to learn in. [00:06:28] One of my stories from the, from my childhood is that there used to be a lot of strikes. And some people will come to school and take us off to go to the strikes to demonstrate against occupation. And I used to refuse to go out from the class. I used to stay in the class. Everybody is go. And I refuse to go. And they keep asking me. "Why you don't go, you don't love your country?" [00:06:59] I said, no, I love my country, but I believe that I can make more change while I'm learning. I want to grow up and be somebody who talks about Palestine, somebody who spread the spirit of being liberated. Everybody will laugh about that. But I never stopped that. Every time they come to take us out, I stayed in the classroom and I stayed, continue to learn, which was, I think it was, in somehow, funny and somehow people think I'm stupid. [00:07:33] And somehow people thought that, "Oh my God, what is she doing? Everybody is in that demonstration but she's not." I believe that they did what they believe in. I respect what they did. But for me, I thought of the other road, and the other road was very narrow, was very dark. I don't know if I will reach any place, but I think today, from while I'm talking to you, I think, no, I can make a change the same as they did. [00:08:03] I think they did that change, but for me, that's a suitable way to make a change. [00:08:09] Alan Levine: I, think you've gotten to my question. I like to ask people as a young child in school at Nablus what kind of student were you? And I can see that you're very serious, but what did you think of school as a kid and, and was that the same or different from the other kids you were surrounded by? [00:08:27] Saida Affouneh: No, I was different. I was very serious. All the time I have been chosen as the best student in the school, which is make me not accepted by other kids. My colleagues, they did not like me very much because they thought, "oh my God, she's just studying. She's just obeying the rules." [00:08:48] I obey the rules despite that, but at the same time, I used to make like a revolution inside the class one day. I remember one of my teacher. I used to love math. I still love math, but not the numbers, not connecting Palestine just to numbers. And she wrote something on the blackboard and it was not correct from my point of view. [00:09:16] I was just in grade six. I raised my hand and I told her, "That's not right." And she was very angry, of course, because her dignity in front of 35 children. And she told me, said, "Sit down don't say that again." And she shout, and it was the first time anybody shout at me in school because I am the the best student. [00:09:44] I kept telling her, "No, It's wrong, it's wrong," And then she took me to the head teacher and the head teacher said to me, "I can't believe that you did that." I said, no, I did, because I'm right. At that moment she asked me to bring my dad. My dad was a teacher. And he came to school and he said, Saida I did not expect that you'll be the one who bring me to school. [00:10:09] And then I told the head teacher the story. Then the head teacher said she was going to grab my face like this. So I catch her hand and I said, no, you can't beat me when I'm right. [00:10:25] Alan Levine: Oh, it's beautiful. [00:10:27] Saida Affouneh: And then she said to me, " I will not beat you. I will cuddle you because you are a strong little girl." And from that day I learned that if you fight for your right, you will win. And that was my first lesson. [00:10:45] Alan Levine: What was it like to go from Nablus to the UK for your, studies, personally and professionally? And from an educational standpoint, how did you find moving to a different world per se? [00:11:00] Saida Affouneh: It was very difficult. It was even... very strange, but first let me tell you why did I go? And then I tell you, how did I feel when I, it was 2003. And it was the second intifada and there was an invasion. I used to live in Ramallah at that time. I have a little child. He was five years old at that time. When they invaded Ramallah, there was a bump in his room. And, just five minutes before the invasion, I took him out of the room. [00:11:40] I put him in another place and we all went, me and my husband and my little daughter went to another place. At that moment, I felt I need a break from all the situation in Palestine and I need to go to learn more how education can protect children. So I decide to go to do my PhD in the UK. [00:12:05] I didn't have money, by the way. I didn't have high IELTS score. I didn't have any acceptance letter from any university I applied for. But I have the will and I have the desire, and I felt that I can do it. [00:12:26] So I went there. And, I fight to be accepted and I fight to learn more English. I took my children with me. I remember the first class, when they were teaching us about-- you will, you'll laugh now because-- they teach us about globalization. And the way they teach us about the globalization was very strange. They took us outside to the environment of the university and start to different people connecting them together in a way. And then I thought, oh my God, what this kind of learning is. They were doing interactive learning, now I can call it, but I'm coming from a place that our teachers teach the blackboard. They are writing on the blackboard. You can see their back only, and nobody is facing you to talk to you. [00:13:27] And we thought this is the best way of learning which is rote learning. I'm not saying that the learning in the UK is better than the learning in Palestine, but I'm trying to make the comparison that they are doing a lot of interactive learning, a lot of active learning, and I thought, oh my God, I can't, I will not be able to do it. My supervisor said to me, "Go to the library and read books." I said to him, what kind of books do you want me to read? And he said, "Just read." [00:14:02] Every day I go to him and say, do you want me to read about theories of education? Do you want me to read about research methodology? Do you want me to read about... tell me what, and he said, "just read." He kept telling me to stay at the library, and I was there for, six months just reading. After five months, I discovered that I need to learn how to read. It's not just to hold a book and just to read. I need to do deep reading. I need to do meaningful reading. [00:14:37] And this make me start to think, who am I, what kind of learner I am? I'm coming from an audio learner, and now I need to be a kinesthetic learner. And at the same time, I need to be a deep learner. So these changes make me feel that not everybody can learn in the same way. [00:15:03] I'm in a place that there is people from China, from India, from the UK. I'm not alone in this world. Nobody cares about what I need, so I need to share and care about the others. It was a very nice, interesting environment that I build my understanding of myself as a learner. [00:15:28] This was the change now-- to start to see myself not only as somebody in the class who know how to get the high achievement scores, but to look at myself from a different perspective, which is as a learner. Who am I? Start to build my research profile to be a researcher. What does it mean to be a researcher? [00:15:50] Alan Levine: Fantastic. Discovering Open Education --- [00:16:03] Alan Levine: And, when did you first hear about or come across Open Education? What did it mean to you and just how did it become so central to the work that you're trying to do. [00:16:04] Saida Affouneh: Yeah, I used to work at Al-Quds University. Al-Quds University in Palestine was established in 1990. And, I used to be there, the director of planning department. And at that time I read a lot. Before that I didn't know any much about it, but I know why it was established. It was established because Palestine under the crisis, there's a lot of closure, so people can't go to abroad. Students can't go to different universities, so they need the university to come to them instead of sending them going to the university. [00:16:46] So I know about, the philosophy of open education. The first thing I read about was the UK open education because our  Al-Quds University was coming from the philosophy of, the open education in the UK. And I read also about the Australian Open Education University. [00:17:13] So I start to learn, and since I need to be the planner, I work as the Director of the Planning Department. I need to know the development of distance education. In the past it used to be talking Open Education is related, and the original of it is the distance education. Not like now it's related more to technology related more to different types and different kinds, but the start of it is the teacher and the learner are not in the same place. [00:17:47] And you need the resources to connect them in a way or not. These resources could be manuals, could be textbooks, could be audio, could be through television, different types. So this was the original where I learned about it. And then I start to learn more and to educate myself. [00:18:08] I don't have any degree related to Open Education, but I start to learn to be a good learner. [00:18:13] Alan Levine: If you meet someone who's outside Open Education, are you able to explain it in a way that makes sense to people who aren't educators, what open education is? [00:18:25] Saida Affouneh: Yes, Open Education is for me, it is related to have the chance to choose what to learn, when to learn, how to learn. This is in general for me. I know the definitions of different UNESCO or different institutions or educators, but for me it is the chance or the opportunity to be able to learn and in the time you choose, in the way you choose. And to be flexible in that. [00:19:04] So there's different strategies, different pathways of how it can represent it. And nowadays it's very broad. So there is a lot of tools. There is a lot of schools for that. I don't think that there is one school that could represent Open Education. [00:19:22] Alan Levine: Excellent. Teaching at An-Najah University --- [00:19:26] Alan Levine: So you teach now at An-Najah University. Can you tell us about the university? The campus, what is it like and what is it an ordinary day like for you as a professor there? [00:19:36] Saida Affouneh: University used to be school, by the way, and, my father finished his schooling there to become a teacher. And then it become a teacher training college. So it's good to know that it, developed and then it became a university. It's one of the biggest university in Palestine. It has five campuses. I love the old one, the old campus because I used to be learning there in the science department. [00:20:14] And, the spirit is there. The new campus is very beautiful, very well structured and modernized. The old campus is full of spirit, the story is there. And there is also a learning hospital. There is a technical college at the university. [00:20:38] When I enter the university, I feel like I'm flying. I feel all the time when I go inside it, I make like this. I feel the respect of being inside a campus. So this gave me the pleasure. [00:20:55] I feel the luck that I'm lucky that I'm working in a university, which builds the people's future. It builds, give the knowledge and the skills. So I look at the university not as a place where I work. I look at it as a worship place, in a different way in the religion of knowledge, [00:21:21] Alan Levine: And, tell us what classes and subjects you teach. [00:21:24] Saida Affouneh: For the last 13 years, I used to be in the management. I used to be the Vice President for Digitalization and Online Learning, and the Dean of Faculty of Education. I established e-Learning Center. But the last year I became a professor and I am more just doing research with PhD students. [00:21:46] I'm teaching enhancing technology into teaching and learning. I'm teaching qualitative research. I'm teaching strategies of teaching and learning. And, this semester I will teach a seminar for, PhD students of how to write your viva, just the last year. I'm teaching for the last 13 years I used to be in the management. Research and Student Experiences --- [00:22:14] Alan Levine: I'm curious what can you share what kind of research some of your PhD students are doing? [00:22:19] Saida Affouneh: Yeah. One, she is doing about how to support scholars around the world who are working under a crisis. So we are developing a tool for psychological support. But it is an online tool, so we are going to make it as an open resource for scholars around the world. [00:22:43] She has developed this tool and we have pilot. And now we'll share it with other, and we have published an article, which will be nice. I can share it with you in order people can read more about it. [00:23:01] And, another one is writing about learning loss. I choose all the time to write about the impact of the crisis on the education. So learning loss because we are suffering from a high rate of learning loss in Palestine. We are trying to see if games, online games can support to substitute the learning loss for children in Math and Arabic. This is another student. I have nine students that I supervised. And, yes. [00:23:36] A lot. Yeah. I don't teach much. I do supervise more. [00:23:42] And, there is another, topic. We have developed a module for teacher training. This student, she finished and she has developed a model for Open Education Resources, just for teacher training. And also it is published, it's called GOCHE (??) Model. [00:24:02] And we have pilot evaluated and published it. It is how to support teachers in order to choose the learning resources, the open resources that suit their classrooms and suit their students' needs. So they need to choose to adapt and to use it. We train them. And the model is a running course. [00:24:26] So all the time I'm trying to connect two main things. One is the technology issue and the second is crisis. But with technology should be open resource because I think we need to share all the time. And the impact on students or their teachers is in my research interest. [00:24:50] Alan Levine: And, first of all, like I'm listening to you and it's just, it's so normal. It's like you have this intense focus and people are working through complex ideas and, researching, at the same time you're living in your own conditions, of crisis. And it, it says so much that, The dedication to be able to focus, and, do that. I just want to acknowledge that. [00:25:15] Before we started and, I said I might ask you again because I'm just very interested to know what's it like, the very granular story of a student experience and what it takes, to learn. Challenges of Education in Crisis --- [00:25:28] Alan Levine: Do you mind sharing that story you told me about, the students you're teaching in Gaza? [00:25:34] Saida Affouneh: Yeah, of course. I tell you, learning in Palestine or any crisis settings, but I can talk about Palestine, is not the same as learning in any normal place. It's not normal. No. But since we don't know anything else except that it is not. Let me tell in general and then I'll go to the stories. [00:25:56] In general, your day, you can't plan for your day. This is the general idea that you can't plan because maybe you'll not reach the school or the university. This is the first option. The second option, if you reach, maybe you can't go home. And the third option, if you reach the checkpoint, maybe you can't go. You may leave the school, but you can't go to your home. [00:26:27] This is in the West Bank. If we are talking about Gaza, which is a different story from October 7 until now. I'm teaching there, volunteering to teach there, and I have witnessed all kind of-- " sumud" is a kind of resilience, but it's a Palestinian word. It's an Arabic word. Sumud means that I will walk in the morning, decide, celebrate that I'm alive, that I'm a student. Even that my university has been collapsed. There's no university campus. I need to leave my tent trying to find something to write in, taking my mobile, if there is a mobile or computer laptop, if there is a kind of laptop, and trying to go to find a place where there is electricity or internet, which is called cafe, internet cafe, but it's not cafe by the way. [00:27:31] So my students, they will go there in order to enter my class. And all the time I hear them apologizing for being late, they say "We are so sorry, we missed five minutes. We are so sorry. Maybe the internet will be connected. We are sorry. Disconnected. We are sorry. Maybe there will be no electricity." [00:27:55] And I keep telling them, please don't apologize. You are doing a great thing that nobody in this world is doing. You are trying to continue your learning. While learning should not be your priority. I tell you the truth, I never dare to drink water in front of them because maybe they haven't to drink water for the last three or four days. I never dare to smile even. I'm trying to let them smile. And all the time I say to them, "You have a broken all the theories of education, because all the theories of education are talking about a good learning environment." Here, there is no learning environment. There is no classroom, there is no campuses, there is no resources. [00:28:42] There is no-- there is nothing. There's only one thing, the will and desire of learning. [00:28:49] They want to learn. And when I asked them, but I know the answer, by the way, "Why do you want to learn? Why do you continue their learning?" And they keep saying-- I know the answer-- they say because we want to go back to our normal life. Education is the only option that we have in order to survive. We want to feel that we are human and we have the right to continue our education. [00:29:20] I tell you that truth, that they don't just learn as other students. They give more of their effort, more maybe 10 times more any other students around the world. [00:29:36] I was talking in a seminar in some European university and I told them, " Can you think, what does it mean that you don't have a classroom? You have not eaten for the last three days. You don't have textbook, you don't have internet, you don't have anything, and still you want to learn." And this is what's going on in Gaza. [00:29:59] They want to learn. The Importance of Open Educational Resources --- [00:30:01] Saida Affouneh: I want to connect this with Open Education and Open Resources. I think that because there is a lot of resources online, I was able to share many of it with my students, but all the time, and this is one of the recommendation that maybe people need to think of it, we need to make it with low tech knowledge so it can be shared without high internet connectivity. [00:30:32] If we want to talk and care about equity, about justice for people who are under a crisis. When it needs to be downloadable, we need to be with low technology so people can download it and could be read offline, not only online, in order to share it. [00:30:54] I used to do this transfer, to transfer it to a low technology document in order to share it with them and to make it short pieces so they can be able to download it. Especially the videos need to be very short and also text based. [00:31:12] Alan Levine: I remember reading just the struggle to the people who maintain internet connectivity in Gaza is, a heroic thing because they're fighting on a regular basis, to be able to do that. And so that's remarkable enough alone. [00:31:29] That- that little bit of story you told me about your students who have to walk? [00:31:33] Saida Affouneh: Yeah. it's all students they need to walk for, at least some of them for at least, one hour, to walk in order to reach another place because they keep moving from place to place, And I was thinking all of the time, what is going on in their minds while they are walking and going to attend the internet cafe? What do they think of? This is something all the time that I need to think of. And I hope that the world can think of when a student or a little child even, , but I teach adults. They go to the tent in their way from home to another, to the tent. [00:32:23] What do they think of? I lost one of my students in that path. Her name is Inez (??). She was bombed while she was going. I, wrote an article about it and I published it about how clever she was, how she's a mom of two children. She lost one of her children with her because she was taking him with her, and now there's only the little girl left with her grandfather. [00:32:57] Her name is Zahra, means flower. And, I look forward to see Zahra, a big writer to talk more about her mother and to continue the journey of education of her mother. [00:33:15] Alan Levine: It means so much to hear their names. I just want to let you know that. [00:33:19] You spoke a little bit about trying to find OERs and resources, and the needs for them. You've been doing a campaign to collect OER. I don't ask what is needed because I think a lot of times the Western world response is like, "Look, we have all this OER for you. Here it is." [00:33:39] And I wonder if that's really, what you need. And then I have a second question I want to ask about, OER in the Arabic world, I think you already framed it, it's very important for it to be considered low bandwidth, and flexible format I would imagine but I don't know, subject areas or types of things that are needed? Is it more readings? Is it practical exercises? Give us a sense about the need for OER. [00:34:09] Saida Affouneh: Yeah, I think through my journey trying to find open education resources for people in Gaza in order to substitute the damage of all the resources, libraries of universities and schools. I have developed guidelines. about that, what are they, how they are needed. The most important thing that it should be, first of all could be downloaded with low bandwidth internet. [00:34:38] This is the most important thing. The second thing that it should be multi-language, because the problem of the language. Not all people in Gaza can speak English or can read English, so they don't need more stress of the language. So it could be in both languages, different languages, in Arabic, the most important, or it could be many people will do it on PDF, so they can translate it. [00:35:05] But if it is in Arabic, it's easier. And, the third thing, it should be short pieces. So we can't send one book, 100 pages. We need to make it like short, to divide it into short pieces. And if it's video, usually the transcript of the video is more important than the video, and the audio is more important than the video because it could be used easier. [00:35:34] And, the most important thing is it should be culturally oriented. Many examples, maybe in the sciences, medicine, there is no problem. But in the social sciences, it need to be more culturally oriented in order to be accepted or at least sensitive to the situation. [00:35:56] One example that happens with one of the volunteers who are teaching in Gaza, and she was talking about-- She was talking about justice and the Convention of the Human Rights, and then people get nervous. Because what does it mean? What does a human rights mean for people in Gaza? Because all the rights have been violated for people in Palestine. [00:36:22] All rights have been violated. We don't believe in human rights anymore, because it is not applied for everybody. This is a sensitive topic that maybe is not suitable. These are some kind of issues that could be considered. [00:36:40] And at the same time, I learned from you last time that there are some a lot of, pages that could be offline. We need to learn more about them. Maybe we can do some training or some raise awareness about that because we were searching for that and we didn't know. Having more either application, it could work easier or offline pages, it could be working easier. This will be wonderful. [00:37:11] Some lectures of teachers, maybe this is for scholars, they can share their lectures. Through the Corona Pandemic there was a lot of recording lectures. This could be very helpful for people in Gaza , especially for teachers. They don't need to rebuild the lost lectures. They can use lectures from colleagues around the world. [00:37:38] Alan Levine: And I wanted to ask because I got a question from a colleague in North Africa about the state of OER in Arabic language. Is there active development? Because, it seems like a lot of his expectation is you have to translate and for all the reasons you cited, I would think there's a true need for content that's created first in Arabic, for the language reason and, for the context and cultural reason. [00:38:06] is there much activity there? [00:38:09] Saida Affouneh: I don't think so. I think that there should be a concentration on this issue. Even that English is the language of the globe, there are billions of people who are speaking other languages, especially Arabic. So I think that there's as a need, a real need to develop resources in Arabic because it is different from translation. [00:38:35] When you translate, sometimes you lose something, but when you develop it in Arabic, the spirit, the culture, the politics, the environment, it'll be included there. So I, wish we can do something in this area. I can directly volunteer to do that, to participate. [00:38:58] Alan Levine: I would think a translated anything, it's almost like second hand or hand me down. And like sometimes you want authentic, we both agree upon this. [00:39:10] I was just thinking, as well, what is the state of information in, Arabic Wikipedia, and is there use of that? [00:39:19] Saida Affouneh: I don't think there is very much designed in an educational way. It's more information. But what we are talking about is a learning designed for specific topics. So it's more that I think there are many projects have been established for open educational resources, but all the time when the project is finished, it is finished there. [00:39:51] There are some websites I have access, but it is not functional anymore. Yeah. [00:40:00] Alan Levine: And, previously you shared about your research and writing about models for open education in crisis. Can you give us an overview of that and maybe where it's sitting now in your, thinking? [00:40:16] Saida Affouneh: I have worked with my colleague to develop a model for open education in crisis. What we proposed that the open resources should concentrate on the priorities of learning. If we are talking about schooling, then we should concentrate on the skills for life. [00:40:37] So when we are talking about, instead of schooling, like nowadays in Gaza, it's not important to learn about history. The most important is to learn how to be safe. The most important thing is how to give yourself psychological support, how to save your inner side and be able to stand up, go to work to continue your education or to live or to rescue your mom or to rescue your sister. [00:41:09] So there are new skills that rise up in the crisis situation that need to be developed. And this could be done through open resources, through like self-run courses with low bandwidth in Arabic, with examples from the situation here or around the area. That could be very helpful. This is one example, the second example, the second module that is needed, and I talk about it very much, is related to first aid support-- first aid from medical background and first aid from psychological, mental and psychological background. Just the first steps in order to give yourself the support, is needed. [00:42:01] The third one, which is very important is about how to be safe online because you know media and how it's used inside the crisis. We need to raise the awareness of people how to use social media, how to use AI in crisis settings since it could be their main enemy, if they are not aware how to use it, which is very important. [00:42:28] So we need literacy, digital literacy, according to the development. [00:42:35] And the last one, of course, the literacy, which is reading and writing, and life skills.. I was talking in one of the conference about what does "camping" mean? People in the West, they go camping for luxury, for summer holidays. But when you live in a camp, what does it mean? Now in winter, nowadays, the camp is like living in the street. It does not give cover, it does not protect you from water, from rain. It does not protect you from anything. I think there is another kind of needs. I was listening to one of the people talking. "What kind of tents that people in Gaza need?" [00:43:21] Oh my God. " The tent, it need to be strong one." We don't tents! We need to be back to our homes. So it's not what kind of tent that we need, it's what kind of life that we need. [00:43:37] Alan Levine: Oh yes, indeed. Oh, I'm having such a great time here listening to you. [00:43:43] First another experience I thought of when you're talking about, social media. I'm just curious like the university level students that you work with, what social media platforms do they count on or are most important to young people these days? [00:43:57] Saida Affouneh: There are two generations. The Arab people like Facebook. They like Instagram. People who are professionals, they use LinkedIn. I think many of the children they love TikTok. [00:44:13] For my students, and students in Gaza, we use a lot of WhatsApp. , It works with lower technology and you can make communities there. I use it all the time when the internet, with them is very low and it keep cutting. I use it as as our classroom, making communities, sending them and bringing back from them things. [00:44:36] And also Telegram was a very good tool for people in Gaza. So we need to think of more low bandwidth technology. [00:44:47] Of course, we need to stop the crisis. This is the most important. But since we can't do that, we can do what we can, that we can develop some techniques in order to continue education. Hope and Resilience --- [00:45:03] Alan Levine: I wanted to ask, can you give me a story of anything that happened to you recently, like just an anecdote or, that, says, "oh wow that just sparked all my hope." Like something that happened in your teaching or your work with students, that just filled your heart with hope. [00:45:19] Saida Affouneh: I'm teaching students from historical Palestine. And, students from historical Palestine, they have, they have their own mixture of culture. All the time I keep telling them that you are the original history of Palestine, we share many things. They come to Nablus to learn more about what's going on here and to do their PdD. [00:45:51] One of the stories that is very painful is how to define yourself as a Palestinian and how to express yourself as a Palestinian, if you are having another passport, another identity. [00:46:14] All the time I keep telling them, I'm telling other students, because Palestinians are everywhere around the world, with different passports, with different identity. I keep telling, "Just ask your heart who you are." The idea is in your heart. It's not in which passport and it's not about where you are. It's not about where do you live. It's about how your heart pump and for what reasons and how do you feel. [00:46:49] So the question of identity is usually a problem for Palestinians. It's not what is the definition of Open Education? It's what's the definition of Palestine? And how does that mean in the past and how does it mean now, and what does it mean in the future? [00:47:10] One of the courses that I did is "Discover Palestine", which was an open course in order to teach people about what is Palestine, where is Palestine? What does it mean? It's not that the issue of Palestine is the most important critical thing in the world, but it is one of the most important thing. [00:47:28] We need all of us as humans to work for the dignity of humans. And if one person in this world, this is what I believe in really, is hurt is sad, then all of us are affected. We are all connected since we are all under the same sky and on the same earth. We are all connected in a way, if we accept it or not, if we agree on that or not. But we are all connected. And you can see that if you smile, I'll smile. If you are sad, I'll be sad. [00:48:07] This is the way, but maybe we don't want to see it. But this is the truth that we are all connected. We are one unit in this world, connected. We need to know that in order to make our life better, [00:48:22] And this is hope [00:48:23] Alan Levine: Thank you so much. That's just so beautiful. Conclusion and Final Thoughts --- [00:48:27] Alan Levine: My last question is when you're not teaching and working and thinking about the world, what's something maybe small that you do that brings you joy or pleasure? [00:48:35] Saida Affouneh: I, I cook lovely food. Yeah. I read some books about how to [cook]. The most important books that I read all the time is how to be hopeful, how to continue, how to be strong, and how to be strong when you are weak, and how to be weak when you are strong. How to identify your weakness and your strength and to accept it and to deal with it. [00:49:06] I practice yoga also related to this, and I love to be with people, other people, so I am doing some social voluntary work. [00:49:17] Alan Levine: I want to thank you from my heart so much for taking this time. it's a true gift for you to share this with me. And, thank you again. [00:49:25] Saida Affouneh: Thank you. Thank you very much, Alan. I wish you all the best and I look forward to future connections and work together on Open Education for the best of the people in this globe. Thank you very much. Take care. [00:49:47] Alan Levine: Thank you again for listening to episode 95 of OE Global Voices, our conversation with Saida Affouneh. You can find all of our podcasts at our website, voices.global.org. And we hope you can follow up for ongoing conversation with us in our OEG Connect community. [00:50:05] Each episode of OE Global Voices, I try to pick a different track that fits the theme or the topic of our conversation. And I always choose these from the free music archive, because, first of all, their music is openly licensed and it's also supporting the creative work of independent musicians. [00:50:22] For today's show, I selected a track called Deserts of Gaza" by an artist named Ethos and it's licensed under Creative Commons attribution license. If you wish to suggest any other open licensed music or guests that we should have on the show, please contact us. [00:50:37] Let us know, and we hope to see you back for the next episode of OE Global Voices.