Episode 099: Adéṣínà Ayẹni === Intro Music and Highlight Quote --- [00:00:03] Adéṣínà Ayẹni: Before now, before this current world that we are now, the digital landscape, the fast information space that we are now, the world has always been oral. Before the printing press, the world has always been oral. No one was writing anything. Those that wrote something did it in form of pictographs, the likes of Nsibidi in Igboland in Nigeria, the likes of hieroglyphics, cuneiform, they are all like pictorial formats. So before printing press, those are some of the means that information was being shared. But a vast majority of the world share information in oral form. The problem is that these people are dying, people who keep this knowledge, because once you keep knowledge in your mind, it's stored in your mind, it's stored there. It's only when you share it, when you speak, that you tend to pass on the message. Podcast Welcome --- [00:00:59] Alan Levine: Welcome to OEGlobal Voices. I'm your host and podcast editor, Alan Levine from Open Education Global. I'm very pleased to share with you this conversation with Adésinà Ayeni from Lagos, Nigeria, who was a 2025 Open Education Award for Excellence winner as a leader. This is a fascinating conversation we recorded June 15th, and it's getting ready to be published. Today is actually the closing day for the 2026 nominations, so it's a good time to get this conversation out there so you can hear what happens when someone emerges as a winner of this process. Of course, everybody wins, but I think you'll be fascinated to learn more about Adésinà. He's been doing work as an Open Educator for a long time. He just didn't actually call it that, but you'll find out in his story and you'll learn so much more about his interest about the languages, culture, and folklore of Nigeria. Meet Adesina Ayeni --- [00:02:00] Alan Levine: Here we are finally after we've gotten to know each other for a long time. Really happy to be talking to you today. First, I, want you to introduce yourself to our podcast audience. Let us know who you are, where you are, but because they're listening to audio, if you can describe the setting, the room that you're in right now. [00:02:19] Adéṣínà Ayẹni: All right. Thanks, Alan. my name is Adesina Ayeni, but I'm also known by the pseudonym Omo Yoruba, which literally means the Yoruba person. I am a Nigerian, presently speaking from home, inside my mini studio, my house studio where I spend most of the day producing audiovisual creations or doing something else. So when I'm not out there, I'm always in this room creating something. Thank you. [00:02:49] Alan Levine: I'm very envious that you have a studio. I have a- See, I'm already going off track- this will happen. I have a room in my house that I call the music room, and I have my, my, my old LP music, and I've got a guitar and a old piano, and I never use it. So I'm envious and respect that you get to use your, music room. I'm gonna ask you where were you born and, where'd you spend your childhood years, and what kind of, student were you in school? What did you think of school as a kid? [00:03:23] Adéṣínà Ayẹni: Yeah. Growing Up Lagos --- [00:03:24] Adéṣínà Ayẹni: first thing, I was born in Lagos State, Nigeria. before the colonial masters came into Nigeria, Lagos was known as Eko, which is what most of us, the indigenous still call it today. But if we try to call it what the colonial masters call it, we call it Lagos State, which is from Lagos de Curamo. Is actually a Portuguese word. When they came to Lagos, which was Eko, they saw that the landscape, the lagoon was similar to what they have in Portugal, so they called it a similar name, Lagos de Curamo, and there's also a Lagos in Portugal, according to history. So I'm from Lagos, Nigeria, and my childhood was also spent in Lagos. I'm a bonafide Lagosian, as we say it. That's someone who was born and bred in, bred in Lagos. I was a creative student, and it started from elementary school. I usually participated in school drama. I was the artist of the school. I draw, I paint, and in secondary school, I was always on standby to draw diagrams on the board. Whenever there's agricultural subject, biology or any other science subject, I'm always at the beckon of teachers. They just call me all around the place, "Oh, go call Adesina to come and draw this and that." So I'm very creative, if I may say. For me, school is a place to develop what is inbuilt. A lot of people go to school to, to learn new ideas or new knowledge, but for someone like me, I would say school is a place for you to develop whatever you have in you, what is inherent in you. School is just somewhere to, to make it extraordinary to develop that thing that you have in you. It helps an individual understand, how to think in different ways. In Philosophy class, there's a way you think like a philosopher. In Sociology class, there's a way you think like a sociologist, and so on and so forth. So my best subjects are subjects that allow me to apply my creativity. Yeah. So that is something I can tell you about my childhood and about school generally. [00:05:42] Alan Levine: Great. Culture Sparks Linguist --- [00:05:46] Alan Levine: And, did you always have an interest in language? Where did the curiosity and interest to become a linguist come from? [00:05:52] Adéṣínà Ayẹni: Yeah, so I will take you back again to my childhood, 'cause, the culture has always been in me. I love the culture from my young age. So back then, when we go on the long vacation holiday, as we call it in Nigeria, it falls within, I think, July, and we resume in August. It's almost a month for you to stay back home. So my mother do take us to, to the village where my grandmother and my grandfather live. Whenever it's the long vacation holiday, I'm always excited to go because why? I'll see things that I do not see in the city, that I do not see in the urban area. I'll do things that I do not do in the city, go to [the] farm, see how crops are being cultivated, how palm wine, which is a kind of wine in, Africa, is being tapped on the palm tree, how ethanol is being made. a lot of things, how palm oil is made. I see everything firsthand. So the zeal and the passion to get more involved started at that age. However because I wasn't privileged to go to a university, a lot of people would be surprised, but I I went to a polytechnic. I had my certificate in polytechnic education, as a mass communicator. So when we were in school, we did History, we did, Philosophy, we did Psychology, and these subjects actually opened my mind to, wow, our culture, our language is powerful. Then I started doing research. I started going to more festivals, talking to elderly people, to collate knowledge. I started reading novels written in Yoruba language, and voila, before you know it, I started creating content in Yoruba language. I was part of the people who started putting out, content solely in Yoruba language on the digital space in Nigeria. A lot of people put content on digital spaces in English, but I was like, "Why can't we just have everything written in our language?" So I started doing that, and that was how I got deep into it. And yes, the rest is history. [00:08:06] Alan Levine: History, happening. Nigeria Language Landscape --- [00:08:13] Alan Levine: And, for, those like especially me who really aren't too familiar with the range of language in Nigeria, can you give us a large picture view? You mentioned Yoruba. Is that the most common language? And I imagine there are so many languages that are spoken, and what it's like to live in a culture where there are so many languages spoken. I asked five questions. I'm sorry. [00:08:33] Adéṣínà Ayẹni: Yeah, No, that's fine. Yeah, so yes, Nigeria is a linguistically diverse landscape. I think we have over 500 languages. Hausa, Igbo, and Yoruba are the most widely spoken indigenous languages, known as major languages in Nigeria. So these, three languages also serve as major regional and cultural anchors. The other languages have their root in these three major Nigerian languages. There's a potpourri of, what do you call it? A mixture, of the other minority languages with these three major Nigerian languages that I've mentioned earlier, Hausa, Igbo and Yoruba. Aside [from] these minority languages, English language inherited from colonial rule functions as, the official national language. Although English is the main language used in Nigeria for business, for government, education, formal communication, but some state governments, for instance, my state, which is Lagos State, which I said was Iko before the colonial incursion, before the colonial masters came to our place, it was known as Iko. So I think on Thursdays, in the sittings in the House of Representative, they speak Yoruba language because Yoruba is the dominant language in Lagos, But English is still dominant. All over the place, all over Nigeria, people speak English. However, rural inhabitants tend to use their ethnic languages more than English, because for you to be able to speak English, you have to go to school, and most of-- some of the people-- don't let me say most. I can say most because not everyone in the rural community are interested in going to school, because they see school as something that you go there, you just spend money. And with the situation in Nigeria now, people go to school and there's no employment, So they don't see school, in the rural community, that they should send their children to any longer. But when the colonial masters were in Nigeria, they were like, "Oh, you have to go to school." So a lot of people went to school those days. But now, as a result of the situation, unemployment rate, poverty, people are like, "Even if you go to school, will you get a job when you are done? Why not just start a business?" Back to the languages. in urban cities, like I said, urban areas, English is dominant and we have a lot of code-switching because Nigeria is a multilingual terrain. So code-switching is common and there's something which we call a bastardized English in Nigeria called Nigerian Pidgin English. It is used alongside English, alongside the normal, the standard English. So if you don't understand English, at least you should be able to speak the Nigerian Pidgin English, which is a form of localized English in Nigeria. But it has also gone into mainstream. Pidgin English Examples --- [00:11:25] Alan Levine: Oh, can you give me an example of what Nigerian Pidgin English sounds like? [00:11:30] Adéṣínà Ayẹni: Okay. For instance, if I want to say, "How are you?" I will say, "How you dey?" [00:11:34] Alan Levine:  How you dey? [00:11:36] Adéṣínà Ayẹni: To say, "I want to drink water," I can say, "I want drink water." You understand? If I want to say, "Can you bring that table to me?" I will say, "You fit bring that table come my side." So it's a form of bastardized English. You need to strain your ears to be able to understand what we are saying. And, sometimes you may not even understand because some of the words used in Pidgin are invented by Nigerians. However, some are a loan word from English. And the good thing about Nigerian Pidgin English is that it is now being included in the mainstream English dictionaries. Just last month or last two months, Oxford English Dictionary included over 20 Nigerian Pidgin English [words] into the English vocabulary. So that, that will tell you how fast the world is catching along with Nigerian Pidgin English. And now we are creating content in Nigerian Pidgin English. People are learning how to speak Nigerian Pidgin English. It's just as, the Jamaican speak, what's it called? Patois, how they speak Jamaican exactly. Jamaican language is similar but different. So these are some of the differences and the uniqueness of languages in Nigeria. However, there's still a challenge to the sustainability of minority languages in Nigeria because they face declining usage due to urbanization, the dominance of major languages, like English, Hausa, Igbo and Yoruba, and even the educational policy in Nigeria is not helping things. Last year, the Minister of Education scrapped the longtime agitation by academia by cultural heritage promoters to have education in Nigeria in indigenous languages. People have been fighting for that bill to be passed. And finally it was passed last year, but unfortunately, the Minister of Education said, "We can't do anything with that now. We have to push it aside. Education should only be solely in the English language." [00:13:49] Alan Levine: It strikes me how language is alive, that it's evolving with the Pidgin language. But at the same time, you can be concerned about the loss of traditional language. And then just the infusion of what the world brings you through technology is good and bad. Mother Tongue Thinking --- [00:14:07] Alan Levine: I wanna ask, 'cause it's always been something I've been curious about, especially for someone who speaks so many languages. Do you think in a language? Internally, do we think in languages, or is there some internal brain thinking that it's not in language? [00:14:22] Adéṣínà Ayẹni: Language is, like I said earlier, consists of the worldview of a people. It's talking about cosmology, talking about medicine, talking about science. It is holistic. So when someone is brought to this life, the mother gives birth to a child, the child automatically absorbs the language of the mother, which is why we have the mother tongue. So no matter how the child develops memory, it is gonna think, like if asked the question, he or she's gonna think in the language of the mother, which is the mother tongue, which is why it has been said that children or pupils that are taught in their Indigenous language tend to excel better than those that are taught in the second language or other language. Research was also conduct-conducted in Nigeria in 1964, if I'm not wrong, or yes, thereabout, by a professor at the University of Ife. they did a controlled experiment. They selected students, taught them pedagogy in Yoruba language. There was also another set of pupils that were taught in English. At the end of the experiment, those that were taught in the Yoruba language came out with flying colors. So yes, knowledge or thinking is in the Indigenous language. So if you need to express or say something, communication needs to come about after you have processed what you need to say in your own language before you communicate. Or when you are speaking with someone, you would break down what the person is telling you in your own language for you to be able to digest and understand it [00:16:04] Alan Levine: We're very interesting entities that can do this. You're doing it right now. You're having this conversation with me in English, Translation for Education --- [00:16:12] Alan Levine: But as a linguist and a professional translator, how do you see that translation and localization of language is helpful in Open Education, especially in Nigeria? [00:16:24] Adéṣínà Ayẹni: With the issue of translation, people tend to see translation as a second thing, like a second hand or something of a second thought. Let's go back to the world religions. When I say world religions I mean Christianity and Islam, the Abrahamic religions, as we call them. The first Bible, according to history, was not written in English. We had so many types of Bible before the ones that we have now. And history has it that Greek and Hebrew were the first set of Bible. So if those documents, like as I call them, they are historical documents, but some people do not agree with me when I call them historical documents. They tend to call it religious document, but I tend to say it is historical documents because it's talking about history. If those historical documents were not translated, although sometimes there's something called lost in translation, which happens when you try to translate from one language into another. Some of the meanings are lost in translation. Although that happens, but that shouldn't be a reason for us to say that translation is not needed. So some people say, "Oh, translation is something to be the second thought." But as someone who has been a translator, who is a professional translator and interpreter, translation is needed in Nigeria where we have multiple languages in the classroom, which is why the scrapped Nigerian language policy for education is something that I'm still yet to wake up from the dream. It's still like a dream because research has shown that teaching in Indigenous language is the best. People would get the knowledge, the information fast and easy than in another language. But our government is saying, "No, we don't want to have anything to do with Indigenous languages for education. We should continue with English." So in a landscape like Nigeria, education, no matter the type, should be available in multiple languages, not just, one language or a few languages. And like I said earlier, the world is diverse and multilingual, multilingualism is natural we are in a multilingual earth. Why then should we say one language should dominate or is dominant on the others, in the education in particular? So translation and localization have a major role to play in reducing the barriers of jargon and terminologies from one language to another, and it gives soft landing. So when a pupil in class is being taught some part of the body, for instance, and the pupil might ask, "What is that? Can you explain further?" It would be more interesting and the student will inculcate the knowledge more if it has been broken down in his or her Indigenous language. So terminology breakdown, jargons breakdown, that is what translation is for, especially for a country like Nigeria. Translation in Open Education supports knowledge sharing. It makes the mother language or the mother tongue perform better, make students perform better than those taught in the second language, like I mentioned earlier. It is the work of translators to bridge language barriers. And Open education is multilingual, in a multilingual context like Nigeria, is the panacea to quality education ensuring inclusive, equitable, education and lifelong learning. So translation is something that is really necessary or needed in Nigeria Stories Music Puppetry --- [00:20:06] Alan Levine: In what we're talking about with the importance of the mother tongue, I'm thinking about the project from India, Story Weaver, and African Storybook where the focus is having children learn to read in their mother tongue. Is there, movement and interest of that approach in Nigeria and in the work that you do of, making sure that when kids are learning to read, they can learn to read stories, in their mother language? [00:20:36] Adéṣínà Ayẹni: Yeah, I have participated in some projects in the past, and there's a website-- I've forgotten the name of the website. So what we did, I contributed to the website by translating stories in other culture to Yoruba language. The purpose of that project, is to ensure that the knowledge of other culture is available in other culture, that's in other language, because language is culture. And I also contributed some of our own stories that was also translated by other people. Is it Pangea? I can't remember the name of the project. So yes, I've worked on project like that, and one of the recent project that I did last year, which was sponsored by the Arts Council of England, was not about reading in particular. It was about, oral literature, whereby I incorporated puppetry into stage acts, music, and, and, yeah, stage arts and music for children. So the children are the one manipulating the puppets. They are the ones singing. They are joining me in the story narration, because reading is one way of taking in information. However, singing and music is a perfect way that makes knowledge stick in the mind. I remember back then when I was in primary school, I can never forget. Till now, I still remember the song when the teacher was trying to tell us, teach us what is called, stomata-- the dots on leaves on plants. So he was trying to explain, and he was like, "Okay, which way is better for me to transfer this knowledge to my students?" So what he did was to sing in Yoruba language, and I still remember the song today. He said, he sang it this way [singing] "Iwo keeki to wa lara iwe lanpe nisto mata." So it became music, anytime, anywhere you remember. Those are some of the things that I'm also trying further on, although funding is one critical issue. If there's no grant from somewhere, I use my savings to push most of these things. So yes, reading is one, one of the ways, for people to understand the language, but also some other medium of passing on the knowledge. Traditional means like oral literature, storytelling is something that is also needed for us to preserve and make the language sustainable. [00:23:11] Alan Levine: Yes. Oral Tradition Folklore --- [00:23:11] Alan Levine: I, wanna ask too, because you're a folklorist. How do you think oral literature is important in today's knowledge world, especially with the impact of all the content and information that people receive, through, the internet and, whatnot? But how important is that oral language tradition? [00:23:32] Adéṣínà Ayẹni: Yeah. Before now, before this current world that we are now, the digital landscape, the fast information space that we are now, the world has always been oral. Before the printing press, the world has always been oral. No one was writing anything. Those that wrote something did it in form of pictographs, the likes of Nsibidi in Igboland in Nigeria, the likes of hieroglyphics, cuneiform, they are all like pictorial formats. So before printing press, those are some of the means that information was being shared. But a vast majority of the world share information in oral form. The problem is that these people are dying, people who keep this knowledge, because once you keep knowledge in your mind, it's stored in your mind, it's stored there. It's only when you share it, when you speak, that you tend to pass on the message. Just last month, I lost one of my "library". I call her my library, which is my grandmom. I was narrating how I used to go to the village when I was a boy, and she used to tell us so many stories, show us so many things. Now she's no more, that library is closed forever. So people like that, who have this knowledge in them, they don't know how to read and write, they are illiterates. They are dying day by day, and this knowledge is being lost. So the responsibility is on people like us who are folklorists, to keep and archive these historical narratives, this ancient wisdom. So oral literature is enriched with wisdom that is applicable today. When you tell some people about historical events or practices that are ancient, they tell you, "Oh, that's ancient. It's not valuable for this common era," which is pure fallacy because there's nothing new. Everything that has been created or that is being created now is a potpourri of things that existed before. The computer was developed, after looking at how the brain functions. The aircraft was developed after seeing how birds take their flight when they fly, So there's nothing new. It's just looking at something that has been in exis-existence and create something out of it. This medium where once the medium used to inculcate knowledge in young people, you sit around old people. There's something called Tales by Moonlight. I don't know if that still exists in Nigeria, but when I was growing up, in the evening, young people, children go to an elderly person in the community when there's moon in the sky, under a tree. They sit around the old man and narrate stories of ancient time, of past times during his youthful age, youthful time. The children ask questions, they learn. These are some of the ways information are passed and is still relevant today. So these are some of the things that people like us, tend to do or we, are doing to ensure that oral literature continues, it continues and the knowledge is being dispersed all over the web because everything happens on the web, so we need to also put stuff on the web as well. When people search, they'll be able to find, some of these projects. I did a project in 2017, 2018. It was also a grant by the Firebird Foundation for Anthropological Research in the US. So I archived some oral literature of the Yoruba people. They are all on my website and on my YouTube channel. So it is needed, oral literature, folklore, it's needed. They are not pristine. They are still useful in today's world and even in education. When you pass on information in class using storytelling, the pupils or the students tend to have a grasp of the idea or knowledge faster. [00:27:35] Alan Levine: So we have to become the library, right? [00:27:38] Adéṣínà Ayẹni: Exactly AI Translation Limits --- [00:27:39] Alan Levine: How do you see the advent of translation technologies? Are they somewhat of a concern to you for the work you do in language? Are they an aid or probably somewhere in the middle, like potential versus problems introduced by language translation automated? [00:28:02] Adéṣínà Ayẹni: Yes. we're talking about large language models. We're talking about CAT tools, machine translation, human language processing and whatnot. Yes, they are good in their own instances or in their own, rights. However, minority languages like African languages lack sufficient data to train these machines. They are not useful for our languages now. There was a time I was trying to do a presentation to tell people that, "Look, these systems are not good for our languages now. If you use them, you just get jargon you get mistranslation." And I actually did that presentation. I did hands-on, went to ChatGPT, went to Laura, and which other one again, DeepSeek, and I did all that. Yes, they were able to give some clear translation based on data that people like us have created. That was why I mentioned earlier, when I started putting content on the internet, a lot of people were just putting English. I was part of the people who started putting Yoruba language, and I've worked with agencies and organizations that have used my data, to train what we call machine learning, cartoons and LLMs now. So the problem now is, like I mentioned earlier, we do not have sufficient data to use for this machine, which is why I'm always advocating, encouraging people to also put data out there in their Indigenous language rather than putting English. There's enough data on English, which is why if you go to this large machine corpora or these tools, whatever you put in there, you get abundance of responses from the query. But when you try that with minority languages, you get less outputs. So yes, they are good in their own right. However, for translators, I wouldn't, or even the translation industry is not encouraging people to use machine translation holistically or in totality. When they do that, they now send those data back to translators to do the tweaking. Human translators do the tweaking and do the correction and review, quality assurance. But that's a lot of work because it gives a wrong context. There's something called the syntax semantics, grammar thing in language. These systems do not understand those things. they just translate anyhow, and the output is always bad. I was reading a book that someone published. From reading the first paragraph, I knew this was done by AI. So those are part of the things that, like a challenge or a drawback for what we do as translators. We are encouraging agencies, industries. I've worked with most of these big tech companies to create datasets not just in Yoruba language, which is my language. I also coordinate other language projects, as lingual manager or coordinator, localization coordinator. We tend to work more with humans, and we discourage the use of machine translation for now. But when we've had a lot of data, put into these tools, they would be able to some extent, because communication is human. So when you now come and say, we are now creating something that is using human language. Machines are not human, so there's no level of training you would give them for them to be able to communicate like human and said it is human language processing. So those are part of the challenges that, AI is posing for the industry. However, we are always encouraging the tech experts or tech companies to work with human translators so that these tools would become better in the long run. Not now, but for posterity, so that in 20 years' time, 50 years' time, there will be abundance of data, at least to some extent, for these, tools to work perfectly. [00:32:21] Alan Levine: When you mentioned reading something and having that good intuition that it was probably AI generated, I wonder as language gets so intermixed, if that is gonna be harder to do, as , it trains on itself or it trains on the mix of human and machine language. It's, both an interesting time and a little bit worrisome time for what it means to communicate. [00:32:48] Adéṣínà Ayẹni: Yeah, it's still based on data like I mentioned earlier. ' I'm a member of Global Voices. I'm the lingual manager for Yoruba language. So we at Global Voices being an open space, a community of human rights act-activists, people who are agitating for, a common goal, we have made our data, our news stories open, for people to use, to train, their systems, their algorithms and whatnot. But the context of Yoruba language, for instance, and the use of diacritics, 'cause we add markings when we write, words, is still a challenge for this system. So to your question, I think, what was your question again? [00:33:36] Alan Levine: Oh, I don't know, just I, speculate what it means for language when a machine-generated language gets remixed with our own human language, and whether it's really possible in the future to be so certain. it's based upon everything that we've trained our own brains on. I just wonder, people expect there to be automatic detectors, which I don't believe is possible. [00:34:02] Adéṣínà Ayẹni: There are tools for English now, when you write something and you say proofread, you understand. It proofreads and corrects some of those errors. Why is it doing that? Because that's been-- the tool has been trained with abundance of data in that language. So maybe in 100 years, if possible, if that would happen, because what I've noticed now is the big tech companies are not pumping a lot of money into African languages. They want data, but they pay meager, stipends, something that is not applicable in other places, and which is why the Nigerian Institute of Translators and Interpreters, which I belong to, have been motivating, and are putting out information out there to educate translators that, "See, you don't need to collect stipends." They, give them abundance of data and they pay little. So it may get there in 100 years, but even at that, I do not see, most of the mi-minority languages, being used perfectly in these tools. Because like I mentioned earlier, there are peculiarities and there are distinctions between languages. English is like a straightforward language, unlike a language like Yoruba, because one meaning, one word could have five meanings, you understand, which has to come down to context, and one word could be used in multiple ways. So if the system does not understand how we think as Yoruba people, does not understand Yoruba language is poetic. Yeah, let me use that word. Most of everything we say is like in form of music, in form of poetry, in form of poem. So it's gonna be difficult for machines to understand this oral form of literature. So hopefully we may get there and we may not, but fingers crossed. What Open Education Means --- [00:36:08] Alan Levine: I wanna talk some about, in your world and where you live, like what Open Education means. Because, over here in North America, it's, it has a certain context and meaning. But, to people in education or just the general, human population, does openness itself or Open Education, what, does it mean in your context? And do you have to explain it to people if you say Open Education? [00:36:36] Adéṣínà Ayẹni: Let me just do a trajectory of how I got to know about Open Education. So I can't actually remember how I came about Open Education in the first instance. But what I remember is, it started when I saw Open Education for a Better World, mentoring program in 2020. And I applied, and participated in the project, and that was how it started. I was like, "Oh, wow, this is nice." Oh, Open Education sounded fresh to me. However, but when I looked, in depth, it is something I was doing before. it's similar to what I've been doing since 2020- 2012, which is putting out educational information for free on the web. So I started more research, attending seminars, more workshops to be in the know of what Open Education is. I love the fact that Open Education removes barriers to pedagogy and allows anyone, anywhere, to take advantage of educational resources. We have Open University Nigeria, which is the pioneer Open Education establishment in Nigeria. It's owned by the government. And while I was participating in that Open Education for a Better World project, I did Open Education world mapping. There's a site like that, i'm sure you know that site open education world mapping or something like that [OER World Map]. So I was the one who entered the data for all things Open Education in Nigeria. Even government that have resources and document that are open, everything was loaded on that site. So when people search and they are looking for materials that are open in Nigeria, they can actually get on that website. So for me, I would say Open Education is sharing knowledge openly, without any constraints on dissemination. [00:38:30] Alan Levine: And I can appreciate so much that when you learned about it, you felt like, "actually I've been doing that." That's very common. And very pleased to share last year that you got the awards that we give out a- as a leader. Mentoring Language Advocates --- [00:38:45] Alan Levine: I imagine a lot in the work that you do, you're trying to encourage other people to have that same kind of passion and interest in preserving language and translation. Do you see yourself doing that a lot, and , how is that important to the work that you do? [00:39:01] Adéṣínà Ayẹni: Yeah. I have organized so many projects, to encourage people and bring newbies on board. I started the Nigerian Languages Data Sci-Tech Conference in 2023. It's gonna be in its fourth year this year. So what that conference is all about is to bring linguists, academia, journalists, tech experts and what have you, together to discuss and deliberate on the way forward for Indigenous languages. And I have two WhatsApp groups, where I have over eight hundred linguists where I mentor them, on how to be language advocates, how to be cultural heritage promoters, so as to ensure that what I started, continues. Even when I'm no more, there are still people handing on the baton, like that. So yes, it continues. Just like I was talking about, cultural heritage and folklore. I'm a folklorist and almost everything I do is about folklore, because you get the folktale from someone, then you pass it on. So they too become folklorists in the long run. . [00:40:19] Alan Levine: And I just wanna personally thank you for your enthusiasm when we first communicated about the award, and I appreciate that you're gonna be participating as a reviewer for this year. That's tremendous. Can you share some of the media projects you're working on, in your studio? Closing Credits Music --- [00:40:35] Alan Levine: Well, thank you again for listening to the OEGlobal Voices podcast. I hope you enjoyed our conversation that we had with  Adésinà Ayeni and look forward to more podcasts just around the corner. Just so you know, OEGlobal Voices is a podcast produced by Open Education Global, and we try to bring you the voices of Open Educators from around the world. If you are interested in being on the show or wanna suggest someone that we should feature, please let me know. You can find all our contact information somewhere out there on the internet. Every episode I pick a song, open licensed music, different music from the Free Music Archive. For this episode, I had selected a track called Universal Language by an artist named Jon Shuemaker, and it's shared under an Attribution Non-commercial Creative Commons license. Just in case, I've been asking  Adésinà if maybe he might share some of his Nigerian music. And in fact,   he did send me the Nigerian music you hear now, a track called Congo Adepro that he recorded in the same studio he was sitting for our recording. I hope you come back for more episodes of OEGlobal Voices. We're getting into the season where the determination happens for the Open Education Award for Excellence. There'll be a whole new slate of future podcast guests. I'm still catching up on last year, so there's never enough time to record all the conversations with the fabulous people that are out there, and it's our pleasure to be able to bring you their voices here on OEGlobal Voices.